<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">The whole point of K VERSUS r is that it DOES sometimes pay to invest more in fewer children than to have as many as possible. Otherwise, all mammals would have three million kids, like fish. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’m sorry, but most parents would not think it’s a great life strategy for your 14 year old daughter to start pumping out babies. Or for your 15 year old son to start sleeping around to impregnate as many females without birth control as possible. As social creatures, the main competition our children will face is other humans…humans who have more money, power, beauty or social connections than our children. As parents, we may not think of it like that, but we are certainly aware if our son gets laughed at by the girl he asks to prom, or if our daughter doesn’t have the math skills she needs to get a high paying job. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Returning to that 20 percent of childless people. First off, that’s not as high as you think. Throughout recorded European history, at least, the number of people who never marry or have children has always hovered between 10% and 20%. So in modern times, it’s not outrageously high. (The birthrate increases in a good economy and goes down with a recession.) The people who fail to find mates are those who lack the prestige and skills valued by their societies. This is the secret purpose behind all the frantic parental investment in their children, although most parents wouldn’t put it that way. They want their children to be good, healthy, happy, attractive people. I.e. the people who easily attract mates and start stable families. The paradox is that raising a child to be a good and happy person really is the best way to get grandchildren… not pimping out your kids three weeks after they hit puberty. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div apple-content-edited="true" class="">
<div class="">Tara Maya</div><div class=""><a href="http://taramayastales.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" class="">Blog</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/taramayastales" target="_blank" class="">Twitter</a> | <a href="http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Unfinished-Song-Epic-Fantasy/310271375658211?ref=hl" target="_blank" class="">Facebook</a> | <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Tara-Maya/e/B004HAI038/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1349796143&sr=8-2-ent" target="_blank" class="">Amazon</a> | <a href="http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/2951879.Tara_Maya" target="_blank" class="">Goodreads</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 10, 2014, at 10:54 AM, William Flynn Wallace <<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" class="">foozler83@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif; font-size: small;">It seems to poor ignorant me (had to look up r and K in Wikipedia, where I found that this theory is now not accepted because of some studies), the whole point of human evolution is to get the children to the age where they can have kids themselves, and it doesn't matter how educated or cultured they are to have kids since that doesn't matter in terms of having viable sperm and ova. The more the more offspring. So in terms of passing along your own genes, if you think that they are worth it, the only sensible strategy is to have as many as you can feed.<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif; font-size: small;">What's wrong with that? I'd like to see the data on how likely it is for a child to reach physical maturity coming from the different socioeconomic classes. I'll bet that it really isn't that different. The upper class ones will very likely live longer lives but since people make babies in their 20s and 30s that should not matter either.<br class=""><br class="">bill w<br class=""></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Tara Maya <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:tara@taramayastales.com" target="_blank" class="">tara@taramayastales.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 9, 2014, at 11:11 PM, Rafal Smigrodzki <<a href="mailto:rafal.smigrodzki@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">rafal.smigrodzki@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:Optima-Regular;float:none;display:inline!important" class="">For the vast majority of Americans, except the Amish and Quiverfull adherents, the number of offspring is not resource-constrained, and therefore there is no question of a trade-off between number and per-offspring parental investment that is the key to the K-r differentiation. </span></div></blockquote><div class=""><div class=""><span style="font-family:Optima-Regular;float:none;display:inline!important" class=""><br class=""></span></div></div></div></div></span><div class="">Hahahahahahah! Really?! I dare you to join and Mommies and Me class in any urban center in America and then tell me that there is resource-contraint. (Count on $300 and 10 hours of your time per child for those lessons… no difference between one and three children? So glad you have an extra 30 hours and $900 lying around, because that’s just the start!) Do you have kids?! If you do, have you considered having twice the number you do now…what changes would that require you to make to your lifestyle? How about three times as many? Believe me, once you start adding up how much it costs to have six kids rather than two, and then compare trying to raise them in Hendersonville versus San Francisco, you would not say there is no difference between a K and an r strategy.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Here’s just a few of the expenses for typical K and r strategies:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><b class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">House</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">: <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">K
Selection - urban or exurban location; each kid has own room; parents have home offices too<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">r
Selection – small town or rural location; kids share rooms<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; text-indent: 0in;" class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><b class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">Car</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">: <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">K
Selection - Two cars, one minivan and one sedan, both new (two career
family needs two cars)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">r
Selection – One car, used<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; text-indent: 0in;" class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><b class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">Travel to more distant
places (international or interstate)</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">: <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">K
Selection - Valued; by plane<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">r
Selection – Not valued; if done, by bus or car<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; text-indent: 0in;" class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><b class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">Pregnancy</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">: <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><font face="Times New Roman" size="1" class="">K
Selection - Planned, timed around school and career, Lamaze classes, yoga, </font><font face="Times New Roman" class=""><span style="font-size:11px" class="">acupuncture</span></font><font face="Times New Roman" size="1" class="">, Duala, pre-natal enrichment, possibly fertility medicine<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">r
Selection – Accidental (even when wanted)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; text-indent: 0in;" class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><b class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">Baby Stuff</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">: <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">K
Selection - new, brand-name strollers, cribs, nursery furniture, car
seats, bouncers, walkers, toys, boutique clothing<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">r
Selection – used/hand-me-down or big box store strollers & car seats &
clothing<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; text-indent: 0in;" class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><b class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">Pre-K Education</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">: <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">K
Selection - Preschool, Mommy & Me classes, many, many enrichment toys and activities aimed at toddlers<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">r
Selection – None<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; text-indent: 0in;" class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><b class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">Elementary &
Secondary Education</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">: <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">K
Selection - private school or charter school or excellent school district
(=more expensive house)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">r
Selection – public school or home schooling<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; text-indent: 0in;" class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><b class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">Kid Stuff</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">: <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">K
Selection - bikes, swing sets, books, sports equipment, computers, phones,
iPads, video games, toys, toys, toys<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">r
Selection – used or cheaper toys, almost no electronic devices (even parents
might not have home computer)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; text-indent: 0in;" class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><b class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">Cultural Enrichment</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">K
Selection - Museums, art, science & computer training, swim lessons, typing
lessons, music/dance lessons, sports practice, tutors, afterschool programs<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">r
Selection – Church, extended family<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; text-indent: 0in;" class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class=""> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><b class=""><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">College</span></b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">: <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">K
Selection - Parents pay<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top:0in;text-indent:0in" align="left"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"" class="">r
Selection – Kids pay or don’t go <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. We have three kids; we want one more. We went over our budget with a fine toothed comb, asking, “Can we afford it? Can we make sure all the kids still get all the attention and investment they need to thrive if we have another brain to feed?” It’s not like getting another dog, where we just have to buy a few galleons of extra Kid Chow. We want this child to feel loved, even spoiled. We want our child to do more than survive, we want her to THRIVE. We are not just up against the edge of our resources, we are OVER the edge. I mean, sure, unless we want to move to Kansas and let my hubby work at Walmart while I watch the kids full time.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In addition to all the base costs of having a larger family (larger car, larger house), there are per child costs. For a good rule of thumb, assume each kid to an urban or suburban costs a $1000 a month. That means:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">1 kid = $1000</div><div class="">2 kids = $2000</div><div class="">5 kids = $5000</div><div class="">etc.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Honestly, even in America, a family has to think twice before they take on another mostly debt of $1000 or more.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Of course, there are some things you can save money on, like car seats, because you have them already, but these savings aren’t as great as you’d think. There are not much savings per child in an urban/suburban environment because you are mostly paying for things per child, like day care or soccer shoes or math lessons. A rural or small town family with a stay at home mom simply doesn’t pay as many of those per child costs. More of their main costs are going to be in clothing or food, where buying in bulk allows some savings. However, their children are less likely to get dancing, skiing or computer programming lessons and less likely to go to college (and that’s per child too, of course) and less likely to become urban professionals. I.e. this is a perfect example of K versus r selection.</div><span class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">
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