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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Crows and ravens are special birds, and are perhaps the easiest wild birds to observe: they like people. Or they like to mess with people. Seagulls are like that too. They play, they seem curious, they do fun stuff. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>BillW, we have a few ravens who have discovered how to put walnuts in the road and let cars run over them, but even better now. There is a phenomenon in my neighborhood where a raven with a nut will perch on top of a light pole on the corner. When she hears a garage door opening, she takes the nut, swoops down and places it in the driveway, then flies away to watch. You are the one who asked if dogs reason. Answer: sure they do, and this bird is demonstrating that this bird reasons too. She knows that when a garage door opens, a car will come out, and cars crush nuts and a bird can’t get to the contents of a nut unless it is crushed. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cars are recent, automatic garage door openers are even more recent. That bird at some point reasoned out a cause and effect relationship and acted on it. Conclusion: some birds definitely use reason, and it is clear enough that dogs and cats do as well. I don’t think you will find too many dog and cat owners who will dispute that notion, or if so, I am interested in their evidence.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Flynn Wallace<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 17, 2015 10:02 AM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] vultures sneeze<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'>Get 'The Secret Life of Garden Birds' and you will be totally amazed, especially at the social systems of crows and ravens. Not to be sneezed at.<br><br>bill w<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 11:20 AM, spike <<a href="mailto:spike66@att.net" target="_blank">spike66@att.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Well, I’ll be damn. No, the subject line isn’t the name of the new hip hop group. I have been watching birds and wildlife for half a century and today I saw something completely new and unexpected: vultures sneeze. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I have heard that chirping in birds might have some other purpose besides intra-species communication; clearing of the airways analogous to mammal’s sneezing. But that wouldn’t apply to non-chirpers such as carnivorous birds in general.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Vultures are difficult to observe beasts; they don’t like people much. A vulture had a snake in my neighbor’s backyard this morning. As he was devouring his snake he did something that looks exactly like a mammalian sneeze: with the side-to-side head shaking immediately after the discharge, a little like what dogs, cats and humans sometimes do.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I went for my video camera and made a bunch of video, but none of it is particularly YouTube-able. That sneeze would have been, but he didn’t repeat the behavior.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Conclusion: at least one example of a species of carnivorous bird sneezes.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:#888888'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>extropy-chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>