<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/22/2015 11:06 AM, John Clark
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJPayv0BJ0cFV-3KkojuQ6qmiCURknp2pbj6px=SqrmHv5kcug@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 Brent Allsop <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:brent.allsop@canonizer.com" target="_blank">brent.allsop@canonizer.com</a>></span>
wrote:</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">> There is
something that is responsible for a redness quality.
And there is something detectably different, responsible
for greenness.
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've already suggested what that difference might be,
redness is associated with one group of crosslinked
memories (strawberries, blood, sunsets, communists,
conservative states) while greenness is associated with a
different group of crosslinked memories (leaves, emeralds,
seasickness, environmentalists). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
To me there is LOTS of evidence that falsifies this view, so it in
no way works in my model because it is so inconsistent with so much
of what we know. You can find examples (brain malfunctions, drug
induced...) where all colors become completely disassociated with
all the stuff you talk about, and exist completely independent of
all of them. Steven Lehar is an experienced psychonaught, and I bet
he could take you through a drug trip that would prove to you what a
greenness quality (and other qualities you've never experienced
before), can exist not bound to any other information but the
quality, itself. You are thinking about compost qualia, and surely
you must agree that all of this kind of bound together stuff can be
isolated, separated, and fail, independently of the other, and
reduced to an elemental level. What you are doing is almost exactly
what I point out, in the paper, when I say: "
<meta charset="utf-8">
<meta charset="utf-8">
<b style="font-weight:normal;"
id="docs-internal-guid-75fd5ebd-b290-d613-1aa6-afab2544ce6f"><span
style="font-size:16px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;">some
tend to think of the actual </span><span
style="font-size:16px;font-family:Arial;color:#ff0000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:bold;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;">redness
</span><span
style="font-size:16px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;">quality
as being part of the strawberry being perceived, or worse, they
think it is nothing real at all. When they think of the term
qualia, they think of everything bound to it, but the </span></b><b
style="font-weight:normal;"
id="docs-internal-guid-75fd5ebd-b290-d613-1aa6-afab2544ce6f"><span
style="font-size:16px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;"><b
style="font-weight:normal;"
id="docs-internal-guid-75fd5ebd-b290-d613-1aa6-afab2544ce6f"><span
style="font-size:16px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;"></span><span
style="font-size:16px;font-family:Arial;color:#ff0000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:bold;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;">redness</span></b>
quality.<b>"</b></span></b><br>
<br>
Also, you definition of qualia is so vague, it is of absolutely no
use to a theoretician or scientist, because there is no way to prove
if you're ill defined, whatever it is, could be, in physical terms.
How, exactly, would you reproduce whatever you think redness is,
artificially?<br>
<br>
And just the fact that you think so much of what is obviously easy,
you think is so impossible, and not approachable via science, is
completely off putting.<br>
<br>
Brent Allsop<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>