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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/22/2015 11:06 AM, John Clark
      wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CAJPayv0BJ0cFV-3KkojuQ6qmiCURknp2pbj6px=SqrmHv5kcug@mail.gmail.com"
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          <div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 22, 2015  Brent Allsop <span
              dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:brent.allsop@canonizer.com" target="_blank">brent.allsop@canonizer.com</a>></span>
            wrote:</div>
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              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">> There is
                something that is responsible for a redness quality. 
                And there is something detectably different, responsible
                for greenness. 
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            <div>I've already suggested what that difference might be,
              redness is associated with one group of crosslinked
              memories (strawberries, blood, sunsets, communists,
              conservative states) while greenness is associated with a
              different group of crosslinked memories (leaves, emeralds,
              seasickness, environmentalists).  </div>
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    To me there is LOTS of evidence that falsifies this view, so it in
    no way works in my model because it is so inconsistent with so much
    of what we know.  You can find examples (brain malfunctions, drug
    induced...) where all colors become completely disassociated with
    all the stuff you talk about, and exist completely independent of
    all of them.  Steven Lehar is an experienced psychonaught, and I bet
    he could take you through a drug trip that would prove to you what a
    greenness quality (and other qualities you've never experienced
    before), can exist not bound to any other information but the
    quality, itself.  You are thinking about compost qualia, and surely
    you must agree that all of this kind of bound together stuff can be
    isolated, separated, and fail, independently of the other, and
    reduced to an elemental level.  What you are doing is almost exactly
    what I point out, in the paper, when I say:  "
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      id="docs-internal-guid-75fd5ebd-b290-d613-1aa6-afab2544ce6f"><span
style="font-size:16px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;">some
        tend to think of the actual </span><span
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      </span><span
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        as being part of the strawberry being perceived, or worse, they
        think it is nothing real at all.  When they think of the term
        qualia, they think of everything bound to it, but the </span></b><b
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      id="docs-internal-guid-75fd5ebd-b290-d613-1aa6-afab2544ce6f"><span
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          style="font-weight:normal;"
          id="docs-internal-guid-75fd5ebd-b290-d613-1aa6-afab2544ce6f"><span
style="font-size:16px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;"></span><span
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        quality.<b>"</b></span></b><br>
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    Also, you definition of qualia is so vague, it is of absolutely no
    use to a theoretician or scientist, because there is no way to prove
    if you're ill defined, whatever it is, could be, in physical terms. 
    How, exactly, would you reproduce whatever you think redness is,
    artificially?<br>
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    And just the fact that you think so much of what is obviously easy,
    you think is so impossible, and not approachable via science, is
    completely off putting.<br>
    <br>
    Brent Allsop<br>
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