<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Dan TheBookMan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:danust2012@gmail.com" target="_blank">danust2012@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 2:51 PM, William Flynn Wallace <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">dan: Which ones? Unless I'm wildly wrong, objective standards for literature
and the arts in general are debated in academia and it seems the view
that there might not be any is held by a significant number of academic,
it seems to me that departments of literature are not resting on that
view. I didn't do any surveys here, so I might be wrong, but I'm
wondering where you're getting this from.</div><br><div style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Oh yeah, the drive to equalize everything. Probably started in the sociology department (still clinging to total environmentalism). Or cultural anthropology. You can't say that one culture is better than another one because that's just provincialism (well, yes, you can and you can prove it too).</div><div style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> It's all part of the political correctness that hasn't run its course yet (soon, I hope).<br></div><div style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">How can one teach ANY course without some idea of what's better than something else?<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>But you do see how this flies in the face of your earlier claim about literature departments cleaving to objective standards.<br><br></div><div>And do you realize since you tell us there are no objective standards, shouldn't you be more on the side of cultural relativism here? (Not completely, maybe. I don't think most relativists are all that consistent either. I think they are usually sneaking in some absolute standards somewhere.)<br><br></div><div>Where, again, are you getting all this from?<br></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"></div><div style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dan, the 'given; refers to a post by Giulio, I think. He says we just like what we like and that's it by the age of 5. But studies have shown that you can learn to like different sorts of music in later life, but that might very well stop around age 35.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Oh, my mistake. I thought you were referring to my earlier email. :)<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"></div><div style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Why read critics?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>To better understand a work and its value or place in the scheme of things. I often work the other way around: I might here a work is good, but I don't read any detailed criticism of it. Instead, I read the work, then afterward read the criticism. Can't always do this, of course, and I confess that many works I find out because someone else said something nice about the work. For instance, I read a couple of novels by Thomas Bernard because a critic compared him to someone else I liked. (By the way, given your views here, DO NOT read Thomas Bernard. I'm almost certain you won't like his novels. I'll be amazed if I'm wrong here. But please don't read him and then tell me how much you hate his work.:)<br></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> I read some on Amazon just to see if there is anything really killer about the book I might buy. But professional critics has historically been wrong an enormous number of times, and in fact why should not enjoy a book I enjoy just because it doesn't meet their standards? There are a few music critics over the years on American Record Guide that reliably like the things I like and if they say it's not worth my time, it usually isn't.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Wrong in what sense? In that you didn't like their recommendations? Or in that you didn't agree with their analysis? And which ones again? (You never really name names. And you don't seem to admit what applies to one critic might not apply to all critics or to criticism in general.) When I read someone like Wayne C. Booth, whom I've mentioned earlier, I get elucidation on how narration works. He isn't necessarily saying, "You must read and enjoy _A Passage to India_ or you're not worth a bucket of spit."<br><br></div><span class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"></div><div style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Interesting novel about Henry James and Sherlock Holmes I read sometime back (sorry I don't remember the title).<br><br>I'd love to find a literary critic who doesn't wallow in theory and just tells how much he enjoys the book, and whose likes are similar to mine. So many genres, so many books. So little time. <br></div></div></blockquote><div><br><br></div></span><div>I'm not sure what you're looking for from literary criticism. Just a thumbs up? Well, you can read sales rankings and see how many stars a book gets. You can also just skim. No one's forcing you to read criticism. :)<br><br></div><div>By the way, there are many critics who are also artists, such as Henry James, Virginia Woolf, Randall Jarrell, Charles Baxter, and Francine Prose.<br></div><div> </div></div><span class=""><span style="line-height:20px">Regards,</span><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div style="line-height:normal"><span style="line-height:20px"><br clear="none"></span></div></div><div><div><div style="line-height:normal"><span style="line-height:20px">Dan</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline">I thought for sure I did not have to provide examples to you of people who went on to have great careers in the arts whom critics dismissed at first - Stravinsky and the uproar over Rite of Spring. Some, like Alkan, were dismissed their entire lives and were only admired far later.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline">All I look for in art is pleasure. Loved reading that book; loved hearing that sonata. I've been known to read an author's entire output based on one book and have rarely been wrong. Any additional meanings are lagniappe.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline">See my other postings for other answers.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline">Yeah, thumbs up works for me. I'll figure out the symbolism, relation to earlier works and so forth for myself. </div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline">Why read critics when you can be reading books? Can you name names of authors or composers that would not have encountered if not for a review? The critics I do read are music critics in American Record Guide. I also read the Book Review section of the NYT, but that's all. I pay no attention to the critic's name - probably a mistake. bill w</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><span class=""><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div style="line-height:normal"><span> Sample my Kindle books via:</span></div><div style="line-height:normal"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://www.amazon.com/Dan-Ust/e/B00J6HPX8M/" target="_blank"><font color="#000000">http://www.amazon.com/Dan-Ust/e/B00J6HPX8M/</font></a></div></div></div></div></div>
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