<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 Michael Butler </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:butler.two.one@gmail.com" target="_blank">butler.two.one@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><p> </p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>yes, I know Hawaii is convenient<p></p></blockquote><div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="4">It's more than just convenient. It will be decades before a thirty meter telescope could be built in space , the Hubble is only 2.4 meters, the </font></font><font size="4"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">thirty meter telescope could see things 156 times dimmer. O</span><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">n the ground only 3 places have good enough seeing conditions for a instrument that large, Hawaii, the Atacama desert in Chile, and Antarctica. And the funding for the telescope comes from the USA so if it can't be built in that country it will probably not be built at all. And I blame Mother Fucking Earth and Father Fucking Sky for that intellectual and scientific tragedy</font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">!</span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></font></div></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4"><br></font></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4"> John K Clark</font></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></div><div> </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><p>and yes, I know "terrestrial location" includes things like altitude and entails things like "seeing" quality, OK? But as Blackstone famously said, "There must be an end to disputes."</p>
<p>But carry on. ;)</p><div class=""><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Dec 10, 2015 8:51 AM, "Michael Butler" <<a href="mailto:butler.two.one@gmail.com" target="_blank">butler.two.one@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><p><br>
On Dec 10, 2015 8:32 AM, "Will Steinberg" <<a href="mailto:steinberg.will@gmail.com" target="_blank">steinberg.will@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I don't really care about whether the telescope gets built or not. .... But I mean, we really ought to build that telescope. Actually, hell, build it on the mountain. But don't discount the VALUE of ancient beliefs, even if they should maybe get ignored once in a while.<br>
></p>
<p>Will, and thread participants at large:</p>
<p>I think it's very possible that the religion story here is a fig leaf for a big (actually quite small) "fuck you".</p>
<p>And you know what? That is PERFECTLY FINE with me, because the specific terrestrial location of a specific scientific instrument of this type almost certainly DOES NOT MATTER if science is, well... what it claims to be and what I think IT is.</p>
<p>Butthurt about losing this court battle? After a certain point, it's indistinguishable to me from whining.</p>
<p>"Let the wookiee win."</p>
<p>Sure, if you're defending scientific culture and are worried about idiocracy and the possibility that the wookies ARE WINNING, then (re)act.</p>
<p>But really, culturally, I think this is small potatoes and I admit I LIKE it when colonial expropriators get one in the eye occasionally. It's an underdog thing. Doubtless a slight flaw in my character.</p>
<p>Wharrgarrrbling about this specific instance? I have used up all the time I have budgeted for the next century on it.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
<p>MMB </p>
</blockquote></div>
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