<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">The problem is, insights gained under such a state often turn out to be
illusory, critically flawed, or so mundane that most who are not
tripping would consider them obvious. You are left with the memory that
you had some profound insight...but, in fact, all that you had was the
memory of that, not the actual insight. Your memories yell and scream
that you had the real thing, but those memories were manufactured by the
drugs. External measurements show that no such insights were captured,
even if you were specifically trying to defeat this illusion by
recording your insights as clearly as possible so as to bypass any
tainting of your memories. Of course, in most cases people do not do
this, and so are only left with those fabricated memories.<br>----------------<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">My own little experience is telling: under the influence I had this insight: you can clean a tool with another tool! Wow! What an epiphany! When I came out of it I thought: you moron! How could it be any other way?<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">A famous heroin-addicted drummer, Gene Krupa, from the 40s on, claimed that he performed better when high. His friends made recordings of his playing stoned and straight and let him listen. He admitted that he played better straight. Under many drugs things are just wonderful: skin senses are acute, making sex just heavenly; taste and smell are acute, making foods wonderful (and it also seems that it turns off the satiety factor, so we keep on eating because it continues to taste great); our thoughts take a hike into lala land, and we experience all kinds of different thoughts. And so on.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">I don't think that is anything invalid about these, except that insights regarding understanding of the universe usually turn out to be as Adrian says: nothing brilliant.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Often wacky. Disappointing compared to our feelings for them when stoned. Of course you will hear claims otherwise.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">If Will's insights are so great and special, I invite him to share them with us.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">bill w<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 8:42 AM, spike <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:spike66@att.net" target="_blank">spike66@att.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> extropy-chat [mailto:<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Adrian Tymes<span class=""><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Religious Idiocy Triumphs Over Science Yet Again<u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 10:32 AM, spike <<a href="mailto:spike66@att.net" target="_blank">spike66@att.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><span class=""><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">In the USA we had our own attorney general recently threaten legal repercussions against those who would criticize a culture:</span><span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.buzzfeed.com/johnstanton/loretta-lynch-actions-predicated-on-violent-talk-toward-musl#.uddAV5VNBN" target="_blank">http://www.buzzfeed.com/johnstanton/loretta-lynch-actions-predicated-on-violent-talk-toward-musl#.uddAV5VNBN</a></span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></span><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d">>…</span>Just to dial back the hyperbole a bit: what she's talking about goes well beyond criticism. She's objecting to calls for violent action - and to action based on said calls - against people who have not committed the offenses they are being blamed for<span style="color:#1f497d">…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Ja OK. Well then, if the AG thinks it is illegal to suggest violent action towards believers, then it should be illegal to suggest violent action towards unbelievers, ja? If evidence surfaces of a religious leader quoting passages which contain texts such as “strike at their necks” that would certainly qualify, one would think. If someone is found with a rally sign saying “Behead those who insult Joseph Smith” for instance, that is clearly calling for violence against unbelievers.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The next task involves creating a list of passages within well-known religious texts which very specifically call upon believers to commit acts of violence against unbelievers. Then our own AG must explain to religious leaders in this country that it is now illegal to quote those passages, which are found sprinkled liberally throughout the writings of some religious writers.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Are we ready?<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><u></u><u></u></font></span></span></p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">spike<u></u><u></u></span></p></font></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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