<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">I disagree, I think</span><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> t</div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">he line is easy to draw</span><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"></div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">. All science is philosophy but not all philosophy is science; a dope at a bar pontificating on the meaning of life is philosophy but not science. John</span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">Is there any reason to think that Aristotle/Bacon, many others, would not be hard-nosed scientists today? Many ideas started in philosophy and made their way into natural philosophy/science. No argument, right? Is there any reason that cannot still happen? No.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">Let them be gadflies. What's the harm? If Dennett dreams up something about consciousness that could really pan out, scientists will take the ball and run with it and maybe score bigtime.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">My favorite area of philosophy is morality. Many social psychologists have taken philosophical ideas and turned them into good science.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">The idea of the unconscious started in philosophy, was popularized by Freud and Jung, and is now an immense part of brain science.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">No question John is right about accomplishments.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">bill w</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 10:14 AM, John Clark <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 Dan TheBookMan </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:danust2012@gmail.com" target="_blank">danust2012@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span><font size="4" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">>> </div>no philosopher has made a philosophical discovery in centuries, only mathematicians and scientist do that. </font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></span></blockquote><span><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>That's doubtful. Theory of reference and intentionality were big topics from the end of the 19th century to today. </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><font size="4">And what original philosophical discoverie in "the theory of reference and intentionality" did all those philosophers make <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">in the last 200 years </div>that were comparable to Maxwell's philosophical discovery concerning the nature of light, or Darwin's discovery of Evolution, or Planck's discovery of the quantum, or Hubble's discovery of the expanding universe, or Watson and Crick's discovery of the genetic code, or Einstein's discovery of warped spacetime<div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">, or LIGO's recent detection of gravitational waves caused by merging Black Holes</font></div>? <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">For that matter, w</div>hat exactly do we know about "reference and intentionality" today that we didn't know in the 19th century?</font><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>I still get the idea that your view of philosophy is something like seeing some dope at the bar telling what he feels the meaning of life is.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">That is not my view of philosophy, but it IS my view of philosophers. There is no contradiction because, as I said before, philosophers haven't done any philosophy in centuries. </font></div><font size="4"> </font></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>Where does science end and philosophy begin in all that? The line might be hard to draw</div></blockquote><div> </div></span><font size="4">I disagree, I think<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> t</div>he line is easy to draw<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"></div>. All science is philosophy but not all philosophy is science; a dope at a bar pontificating on the meaning of life is philosophy but not science.<br><br> John K Clark</font></div><br></div></div>
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