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<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>I can agree with everything you are saying, even when you say "we
do know that a program with a million lines of code can
manufacture the qualia 'red'". I must admit that this is a very
testable scientific theory that could be proven correct by
demonstration. I just happen to currently favor the theory that
it is something much simpler, like a particular neuro transmitter
that is responsible for an elemental qualia like red. But let's
go with your theory in this conversation.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>OK, so something less than a million lines of code can
"manufacture" the elemental qualia red. I assume you will agree
that a different set of code can "manufacture" the qualia green,
and that eventually we will be able to know, recognize, and detect
each of these and their differences in each of our minds. Then we
will be able to see each of these in our brains, and be able to
tell things like if my code "manufacturing" red is more like your
code "manufacturing" green. In other words we will be able to
"eff the ineffable" and know how our minds differ, qualitatively,
or not - at least to some degree.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>It is still a fact that both the words "red" and "green" do not
have either of these "manufactured" qualities, but only are
representing such. So the question is, which do you interpret
them as, my manufactured red or your manufactured red (possibly my
green)? The point being, that without knowing how to properly
interpret them, they are just that: qualia absent representations
that must be properly interpreted. Similarly, a million lines of
code can surely represent either my red or your red, if you
interpret them in the right (or wrong) way.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I can agree with you that simulating neurons and dendrites is
"exactly the [most important] point". But you are still being
blind to the difference between an abstract representation that
represents what is "manufactured" and the real quality being
"manufactured". And that is at least a little important, too.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Brent Allsop</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>OK, let's go with the assumption that everything you say is
correct.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/10/2016 4:09 PM, John Clark wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJPayv007QmfXv2VKa6QudRi18exz75ZmKZdGnaAYf04fpe3WA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Mon, May 9, 2016 ,
Brent Allsop </span><span dir="ltr"
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:brent.allsop@canonizer.com" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:brent.allsop@canonizer.com">brent.allsop@canonizer.com</a></a>></span><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><font color="#500050"><br>
</font>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">>
</div>
simulated neurons and dendrite synapses are surely
possible, but not the point. </div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font size="4">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">I
think that's exactly the point.</div>
</font></div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">>
</div>
Sure a word like "red" can represent, and thereby
simulate a redness quality, but it clearly does not have
the quality it can represent.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
size="4">We don't yet know what all the steps in the
recipe to produce the subjective sensation of red are
but we know the maximum size of the entire cookbook. </font><span
style="font-size:large">The human genome is about 750
million bytes but has massive redundancy, run it
through a loss-less compression program like ZIP and
it's down to 50 million bytes. About half the genome
deals with the brain so that's 25 million bytes or
about a million lines of code. So although we don't
know exactly what it is yet we do know that a program
with a million lines of code can manufacture the
qualia "red". </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font
size="4"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font
size="4">By comparison MAC OS X has 85 million lines
of code. </font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font
size="4"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
<div><font size="4">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> John
K Clark </div>
</font><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
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