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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Flynn Wallace<br><br></span><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:#222222'>I am not getting a sense of what the majority of this group believes. Is Snowden a traitor or a hero?</span></span><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#222222'>bill w</span><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif'>Depends on how you view cell phones. My view is that anything you do outside your own home is visible, so it is legitimate for anyone who sees you to see you. And record what you do out there. Inside your own home, not. Outside, you are spraying informative photons everywhere. Observers, nosy neighbors, local constables, anyone who can see you: they are not so much intercepting those photons as you are hurling photons at their eyes. Or their cameras.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif'>Ja?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif'>Inside your own home, if they put some kind of device in there, that is illegitimate. Fourth amendment stuff, illegal for governments to do, violating your security in your letters, etc. Do review the wording and note this is not a permission, it is a right, and governments do not have permission to violate a right. Text:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'>The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'>OK, so what is a cell phone? If it is used inside your home, you are spraying photons thru the walls of your home so would that be analogous to actually being outdoors? Or is it analogous to a really leaky land line? The constables need a warrant to tap a land line, and those are hard to get. Do they and should then need a warrant to intercept the photons you willing hurl at them with that cell? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'>I personally don’t have a dog in this fight, being as I will allow them to listen to my discussions, but I am a special case: I am the most boring person in the world, the counterpart to that guy on TV who is the most interesting. I was at a party, some yahoo said I know you! You are that guy, the most boring person in the world! Several others heard, and became interested, which meant I was no longer the most boring person. They lost interest then, went off to find the new most boring person in the world, but when that happened, I again became the most boring, so they will never find that other guy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'>But I digress. I don’t care if the constables intercept my phone conversations, but being the most boring person, they would use the discussions as a lullaby. They could weaponized them, use them to cause the bad guys to die of boredom, a snooze-cannon more powerful than that internet video that enraged the entire middle east and started wars, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'>If Snowden signed to protect secrets, then blabbed something the government may do legitimately, then he is a traitor. If he blabbed something they were doing which was unconstitutional, un-fourth-amendment, then he is a hero.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'>So… are cell phones radios? If so, then interception is fair game. Or are they leaky land lines? If so, interception without a warrant is unconstitutional and violates our right to privacy.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'>Do educate me for I retired my spam bucket land line years ago. For many years, I have had no physical way to send or receive sensitive information in protected mode, which is no problem for really boring people, but for those of you who have exciting lives (and you know who you are) well, do educate me please.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'>Over to you BillW.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif;color:#222222;background:white'>spike</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri Light",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>