<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><div class="gmail_default"><font size="4"> but religious organizations don't have to, nobody knows what they do with their money. </font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font size="4"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font size="4"> John K Clark </font></div><div><font size="4"><br></font></div><div><font size="4">I do. The occasional missionary, but mainly a bigger church. They spend it on themselves - excluding the Salvation Army, which does a lot of good. I suppose Catholic charities and others do some good work too, but I'd sure like to know how much goes to Rome to buy more million dollar sculptures, etc.</font></div><div><font size="4"><br></font></div><div><font size="4">Do you imagine what voters would do if you tried to make religions file the tax thing? Senators and Congressmen do.</font></div><div><font size="4"><br></font></div><div><font size="4">They don't pay local taxes either, such as for the upkeep of their roads.</font></div><div><font size="4"><br></font></div><div><font size="4">Not how you would design a society if you were starting out, but difficult to change once in place. Too hot a potato. </font></div><div><font size="4"><br></font></div><div><font size="4">bill w</font></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 12:28 PM, John Clark <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 2:29 AM, Adrian Tymes </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:atymes@gmail.com" target="_blank">atymes@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"></span><font style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif" size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">>> </div>Freedom of speech and assembly covers a lot of ground, you can never list all the things you can do with those freedoms and I don't think religious speech is more important than other types of speech and if you have freedom of speech you can use it </font><font size="4">to petition the Government for a redress of grievances, </font><span style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">so they shouldn't have been specifically mentioned. </span></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>Keep in mind the times when it was written. One could, back then, conceive of a government that took such petitions as the equivalent of shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater:</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">I don't think one should be allowed to shout anything in a crowded theater except for fire if there really was a fire; you have a right to speak but you don't have a right to make me listen. Incidentally that metaphor came from a decision from Judge Oliver Wendell Holmes involving those who spoke out against the USA being in the first world war, Holmes later regretted it calling it the worst decision in his legal career. But the saying lives on. </font></div><font size="4"> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"></div></font></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>speech intended to be dangerous, and thus not falling under free speech protections. Likewise, just because a state-sponsored religion hasn't been established does not itself prevent laws against practicing certain forms of religion </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default"><font size="4"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">As long as you could meet with like minded religious believers and speak and write about your religion what would a law against that religion even mean? Yes somebody could claim (and unfortunately some have) that although freedom of speech specifies that you can say anything it doesn't mean you can say "</font><i style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">that</i><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">", but there are an infinite number of things you can say and you can't list them all, so I see no reason religious speech and activities should be singled out for special protection over and above all other forms of speech and activities. And singling out religion is the reason religious charities have rights that non-religious charities do not; churches don't even have </font>to file an application for recognition of tax-exempt status as non-religious charities do, they get it automatically. Also the IRS requires non-religious charities to file form 990 every year detailing what they are doing with their money, but religious organizations don't have to, nobody knows what they do with their money. </font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font size="4"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font size="4"> John K Clark </font></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
extropy-chat mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>