<div dir="ltr"><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.8px"><font size="4">Without debt Silicon Valley wouldn't exist, even renaissance Italy wouldn't have existed without its banks.</font></div><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.8px"><font size="4"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(80,0,80)"> John K Clark</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">OK - but when a company gets very large, say like GE, they can finance their own R and D without having to issue stocks or bonds. True?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Then why don't they go private so they can avoid all sorts of regulation and can avoid paying dividends? In cases like this I see no advantage to debt.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">bill w</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 1:45 PM, John Clark <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Stephen Van Sickle </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:sjv2006@gmail.com" target="_blank">sjv2006@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr"></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>Capital can be raised by sale of equity. Debt can be convenient, but is hardly necessary. <p></p></blockquote></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">There is no fundamental difference. When a bank loans you money to buy a house the bank is in effect forming a partnership with you and taking an equity position on your future earning potential. Or you can think of it as issuing</font></div><font size="4"> Van Sickle<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> bonds that the bank buys, and you then use the money the bank gave you for the bonds to get your house. The future earning potential of my invention or the future earning potential of my salary, It's the same thing.</div></font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">S</div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="4">haria law</font><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline"><font size="4"> takes a dim view of debt and charging of interest, but it's odd that so many Extropians and fans of capitalism seem to agree. </font></div></font><br></div><div><br></div><div><font size="4"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> John K Clark</div></font></font></div><span class=""><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr"> </p>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Jul 20, 2016 5:51 PM, "John Clark" <<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 PM, Stephen Van Sickle </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:sjv2006@gmail.com" target="_blank">sjv2006@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:large"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">>> </div>And without debt you couldn't have capitalism.</span></div></span></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>Why not?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"></div><font size="4">Capitalism is about capital,<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>If I invent a brilliant new<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>widget<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>I'm going to need capital to mass produce them, so if I don't have the capital <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">to do that </div>I'm going to have to borrow some. And if I borrow something I'm going to have to give it back<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">,</div> and that means I've incurred a debt. Without debt Silicon Valley wouldn't exist, even renaissance Italy wouldn't have existed without its banks.</font></div><div><font size="4"><br></font></div><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4"> John K Clark</font></div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>
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