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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Flynn Wallace<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 16, 2016 4:39 PM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Our Ageing World<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>>…<span style='color:#222222'>yet, inexplicably, no one seems to want to create a massive bipartisan effort to get rid of any and all voting systems dependent in any way on electronics in any form. Oy.</span></span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>>…<span style='color:#222222'>Hey cool, a post free of any partisan political content! By me of all people.</span></span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222'>spike</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:#222222'>I agree with all of that, Spike, but to me the major cause of corruption in the voting process is gerrymandering in the state legislatures by the party in power</span>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Ja. We can work these problems simultaneously, being as they are completely orthogonal. The problem you describe is incumbent advantage: the party in power can stack the deck. We are seeing this in nearly a runaway condition, with the likely upcoming question of self-pardon at the presidential level. Nixon asked in jest if it could be invoked; witnesses report laughter at the suggestion. Bill Clinton almost did use it in a lawsuit brought against him for sexual harassment; he sought to postpone the proceedings until after his term, which would have been circling dangerously close to a self-pardon. That was the case that resulted in questioning of Monica Lewinsky under oath, and you know the rest.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Now we have an interesting variation on that theme: pre-emptive successor pardon. Review what the current president has uttered regarding his presumptive successor: was not that a defacto successor pardon? Since his presumptive successor will have the power to pardon her predecessor, is not this equivalent to an indirect self-pardon? For instance, what if we find among the yoga routines evidence that the current president knew his presumed successor was using an unsecured server for state business? He would need a pardon for not immediately removing her from office, and the person he pardoned would be in a position to extend a pardon back to him. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:#222222'>I saw just a few days ago a North Carolina law was struck down that essentially inhibited blacks from voting - by a Repub legis., natch</span>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Indeed? I am surprised I never heard that North Carolina had laws regarding one’s race as a condition of eligibility to vote. How do they do it if one is mixed race, and has the DNA evidence to prove it? May they vote if they are over half an eligible race? What is the required percentage of DNA required to inhibit a voter in North Carolina?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:#222222'>I have no idea what to do about this problem, but it's a big one, far more pervasive than the problems you mention</span>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Vote the bastards out of office, and start by brutally destroying all voting machines with any electronic components. Light the polling place with human-electric generation, with all other sources of electricity shut off. Then repeal all laws inhibiting any particular race from voting.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:#222222'>Win at any cost is the motto</span>….<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Review the work of Saul Alinsky.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:#222222'>Cheat and even if you get sued the court might be stacked for you</span>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>See above.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:#222222'>Mississippi does this constantly</span>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>They studied Alinsky too. His writings have been perhaps the single most negative and destructive influence on civilized government in the 20<sup>th</sup> century. The curse continues into the 21<sup>st</sup>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:#222222'>You have to go to federal court to get relatively unbiased judgments</span>…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>For now, ja. What happens when they too become corrupt as Mississippi and North Carolina?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…<span style='color:#222222'>(yeah, Dems do it too)</span></span><span style='font-size:14.0pt'> </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222'>bill w</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Imagine that. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I will be far more optimistic as soon as I see states make a move toward not just ridding themselves of all electronic voting machines but using sledge hammers and a steam roller to ensure they will never be a temptation to future power seekers. Second, they must establish some means of ensuring that all ballots cast are correctly and accurately counted, in some verifiable manner. Third, demonstrate a meaningful effort to ensure protection against ballot stuffing, and that every person who submits a ballot is legally entitled to do so, which means legal citizenship and (in most states) no felony criminal history. Those steps will be a good start, ja?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Think of it BillW: America is on the verge of selecting between two candidates, both widely distrusted by the majority of Americans, yet here we sit with no way of verifying the outcome of the election. Regardless of which wins, will be left having to take the word of the government (which over half the people do not trust) on who won. How will we know? Either winner might lead us into a war in which few Americans have anything to gain and much to lose, and yet… we will still have no way to know if that leader was legally elected. This bodes ill.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Why is it that we have known for a long time about the voting machine problem, yet we seem to be making little progress? What happens if we see plenty of evidence the Russians did rig those things? Do we scold the Russians then let the result stand? But the winner will have little interest in scolding the Russians for helping him or her win, ja?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Suggestions please?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>