<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Result: a sharp motivated student can get from basic addition to calculus <span class="" tabindex="0"><span class="">in four years</span></span> rather than the usual twelve, and once they do, they know everything in between much better and can use it far more effectively.<span class=""><font color="#888888"><u></u><u></u></font></span></span></p><span class=""><font color="#888888" style=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">spike</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I have no comment on math education as I know nothing about it outside of statistics. You have seen it work and that is good enough for me.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Once we move outside of math, however, there are certain features to education in which students may not be able to move as fast as they can in math. I refer you to Bloom's taxonomy, link below:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><a href="http://www.nwlink.com/~donclark/hrd/bloom.html">http://www.nwlink.com/~donclark/hrd/bloom.html</a> </span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Look esp. at the cognitive realm and tell me that 12 year old students can go all the way through those steps. He cannot. His brain is simply not ready.</span></font><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">I found that I did not understand some concepts until I was out of grad school - not fully. Of course I was 26 and perhaps, as I had evinced earlier, was a slow grower, not peaking until my 30s in some regards.</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">But, like everything else, the proof is in the pudding, and it may be that the Google approach will work for areas outside of math. I'd like to see the research.</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">As for brain readiness, I note with some humor that psych 101 was not to be taken by freshmen when I went to college and when I started teaching college some ten years later that was still the case, though it changed in the 70s.</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">In sum, I think psychology cannot be taught effectively the way you describe: watch a DVD for 20 minutes, do some practice work, and so on. </span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">Now History - I never had a good teacher and think that maybe it can't be taught any way at all. I never made above a C in it except for Ancient History (easier teacher probably, as it was not a popular course). Ss should be given a History DVD and tested later. No need for a teacher!</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px">bill w</span></font></p></font></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 2:45 PM, spike <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:spike66@att.net" target="_blank">spike66@att.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> extropy-chat [mailto:<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat-bounces@<wbr>lists.extropy.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Flynn Wallace<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 20, 2016 11:49 AM<span class=""><br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.<wbr>org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] google classroom, was: RE: Meta question<u></u><u></u></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#222222">Then please comment upon your comment above, in light of the modern education philosophy: a teacher should be a guide on the side rather than a sage on the stage.</span><span style="color:#222222"><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">spike</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I would have quit and gone into marketing. Example: my chairman asked if I would like the department to buy some statistics videos by some well-known teacher. …</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">bill w</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Ah OK BillW. I understand now, and should have specified making observations from the students’ point of view rather than the teacher’s. If you know any fifth and sixth grade teachers, feel free to invite their views on this matter. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There is a reason why I suggested viewing a KA video: the format of a ten minute lecture immediately followed by exercises on that topic. I see this as a far more efficient and effective means of teaching many if not most topics than the classroom structure mandated by practicalities. We have the students gather in a particular place and particular time at great expense and effort in many cases, give them an hour lecture, then off they go to do the homework. But concentration spans are generally shorter than that and getting steadily shorter. So, the Khan Academy format offers ten minute lectures interspersed with approximately twenty minutes of practice and a series of mastery assessments. This really works.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Another observation please, one I might share with Google, or Chris can pass it along if he wishes.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">We remember our own education, but allow me to focus please on an area I know better than the others: mathematics.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Plenty of us here are engineers or software developers or some kind of math geek. How many have ever been on a project where it was design by committee, but the committee was made up of individuals, egos, rivalries, they never went out and talked shop, or for whatever reason the members didn’t like each other much or didn’t work together well as a team? Ja, most of us have at one point or another. OK, how many were satisfied with the final product? Ja, none of us were. No one on that team was satisfied, and we could all imagine a better one. The product lacks cohesiveness. The pieces don’t work all that well together and we can all easily see wasted effort everywhere in that design.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Traditional education using traditional methods is like that. A mathematics curriculum is designed by a dozen or more different people, all with their own ideas of what is important, each with their own focus, each with a vague idea the student is shooting for college calculus perhaps, but the end product is really filled with gaps, over-writes, redos, wasted effort, wasted time, none of it really the fault of school or the curriculum designers.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Now consider the alternative: one person who has a clear vision gets to design the entire curriculum from early grades up through college. She knows the skills the student must master to get to the next point on the continuum. The entire process is cohesive.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Result: a sharp motivated student can get from basic addition to calculus in four years rather than the usual twelve, and once they do, they know everything in between much better and can use it far more effectively.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><u></u><u></u></font></span></span></p><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">spike<u></u><u></u></span></p></font></span></div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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