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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'> extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Anders<br><b>…</b><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] mutual assured injury<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'>>…</span>The main effect is cooling in modern climate models. The Toon and Robock models typically use 5 Tg of black carbon for regional nuclear conflicts (remember, Pakistan and India are shooting at each other too, regardless of Trump) and 150 Tg for full-scale wars. Presumably there would be about the same order of magnitude or more CO2. Current carbon emissions are on the order of 10 Pg per year - a factor of 66 or so. <br><span style='color:windowtext'>…</span> <br><br><span style='color:windowtext'>>…</span>Overall Robock seems to be the one to follow in regards to models. There is not much competition in the nuclear climate model field - most researchers seem to think these models are not academically interesting, so they do not work on them. I have been working behind the scenes to change it (muhahaha), but I have a feeling that I might have to learn how to do climate codes myself to get it done properly<span style='color:windowtext'>… Anders</span><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>My intuition is that somehow the overall impact would need to be cooling in the short run, net warming in the long run. Reasoning: soot in the upper atmosphere (the remains of USA and Russia) would decrease albedo so in the long run would absorb more solar energy while blocking solar energy to the surface in the short run.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>I am looking into the bovine models. We are told that cow farts are introducing huge amounts of methane into the atmosphere, and that corn-fed cows create way more methane than grass-fed. My intuition drives me to conclude that we could create enormous vats in which we mimic whatever reaction is taking place inside cows, convert corn to methane directly, use that to greenhouse our way over the cold decade after we nuke ourselves.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>Wouldn’t that work? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>