<div dir="ltr">The behaviour would be similar to the behaviour of biological humans, who through interacting with you convince you that they are conscious and have feelings, even though you can't be absolutely sure.<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 18 November 2016 at 10:09, William Flynn Wallace <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">If the behaviour associated with emotions can be replicated by a computer, the emotions should follow. Otherwise, we would be able to make a partial philosophical zombie, which is logically problematic:</div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline">I think you have to separate internal feelings from overt behavior. Running, for instance, could signal fear or joy. Inferring an internal state from an external one is highly problematic. (If I understand what you are saying.)</div></div><div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline"> bill w</div> </div><div><div class="h5"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="m_-6443683868004194513h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">It's a very fine line. I like this analogy: suppose a frog whose ability to jump is limited to 5 inches, vertically. Then that frog is put at the bottom of a staircase in which each step is 6 inches. Another frog who can jump 6 inches can go all the way to the top.</span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">So what looks like a huge qualitative difference between these two frogs is really a very small quantitative difference.</span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">Very fine line between us and apes.</span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">Is intelligence really just a quantitative thing, or are dozens of qualitative processes there too? Emotions can vary quantitatively but the biggest feature of them is qualitative - anger is different from anxiety, for example.</span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">I wish I knew enough about AI to understand how they are going to program qualitative states into a computer.</span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">I wish someone knew enough about animal emotions for us to compare us to them.</span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">It would seem that emotions are a much more fuzzy topic than intelligence, but perhaps our definitions of intelligence just are too limited to appreciate the nonquantitative aspects of it.</span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">I am not trying to define what a human is, or just how we differ from lower animals. I don't think we know enough for that yet.</span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">bill w</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="m_-6443683868004194513m_4928216164993678933gmail-h5">On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 7:30 PM, John Clark <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="m_-6443683868004194513m_4928216164993678933gmail-h5"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 William Flynn Wallace </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>I agree with the logic of this article, but there's something missing.Yeah - it's the rest of what it means to be human: emotions and feelings and smells and tastes</blockquote><div class="gmail_quote"><font size="4"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">That's not what makes us human, other creatures on this planet have been able to feel and smell and taste for at least 500 million years, they've behaved as if they had emotions too. It's intelligence that distinguishes us from the other animals and makes us human. </font></div><span><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>Would I give up those things for a higher IQ? What do you think?</div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><font size="4"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">I see no reason you couldn't have both.</div> </font></div><span><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>If you would, you are as cold as the machines referred to in the article.</blockquote><div><font size="4"><br></font></div></span><div><font size="4"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">I think it would be easier, far easier, for us to make a emotional machine that a intelligent, certainly Evolution found that to be the case. </div> </font></div><div><font size="4"><br></font></div><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">John K Clark</font></div><br></div><div><br></div><div class="m_-6443683868004194513m_4928216164993678933gmail-m_-2673113383202089002m_-715161590226859093HOEnZb"><div class="m_-6443683868004194513m_4928216164993678933gmail-m_-2673113383202089002m_-715161590226859093h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="m_-6443683868004194513m_4928216164993678933gmail-m_-2673113383202089002m_-715161590226859093m_-2361673560174374963HOEnZb"><div class="m_-6443683868004194513m_4928216164993678933gmail-m_-2673113383202089002m_-715161590226859093m_-2361673560174374963h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="m_-6443683868004194513m_4928216164993678933gmail-m_-2673113383202089002m_-715161590226859093m_-2361673560174374963m_-8523821228820707445HOEnZb"><div class="m_-6443683868004194513m_4928216164993678933gmail-m_-2673113383202089002m_-715161590226859093m_-2361673560174374963m_-8523821228820707445h5"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div>
<br></div></div><span class="m_-6443683868004194513m_4928216164993678933gmail-">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
extropy-chat mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailm<wbr>an/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><br>
<br></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
extropy-chat mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailm<wbr>an/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span class="m_-6443683868004194513HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br><div class="m_-6443683868004194513m_4928216164993678933gmail_signature">Stathis Papaioannou</div>
</font></span></div><span class="m_-6443683868004194513HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div><a href="http://consc.net/papers/qualia.html" target="_blank">http://consc.net/papers/qualia<wbr>.html</a><br></div><div><br></div></font></span></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
extropy-chat mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailm<wbr>an/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div></div></div><br></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
extropy-chat mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-<wbr>chat</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Stathis Papaioannou</div>
</div></div>