<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">(sorry, I did it again - sent before I was ready)</div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">I just want to know what the hell the term means.</div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">John K Clark </div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">I suspect, without any evidence at all, that it comes from Christianity. If we are always doing God's will because that's the way God set it up, then there is no room for sin, and sin is the basis of the religion: Adam and Eve sinned and it has to be their choice or there is no justification for eviction from Eden.</div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">Add to it the doctrine that their sin infected every single human since, and we have original sin; ergo, babies are born lacking a state of grace (necessary to go to heaven) and must be saved </div></font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large"> </span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">by their own choice.</span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:large">(here sects disagree about baptism, immersion, etc.)</span></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">So free will is necessary for the very bases of this religion.</div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">Best I can do, I think. Consult a philosophical dictionary for more.</div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">I don't believe in any of it. "I did not mean to do that" means "I wish I had not done that".</div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">bill w</div></font></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 12:19 PM, William Flynn Wallace <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span class=""><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">I just want to know what the hell the term means. John</div></font></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div></span><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:27.2px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">John K Clark </div></font></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 11:44 AM, John Clark <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Dave Sill </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:sparge@gmail.com" target="_blank">sparge@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">></div> Unless someone holding a gun to your head and making you use technology, free will isn't at play.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">Even if somebody <b>is</b> holding a gun to your head and tells you to pick X and not Y and you do indeed pick X you have done so because under those circumstances you wanted to pick X. Yes, if the circumstances were different, like not having a gun to your head, you might have wanted to do something else, but they weren't so you didn't. </font></div><font size="4"> </font></div><div><br></div><div><table cellpadding="0" class="m_8960971253370986391m_-3722655801600959835gmail-cf m_8960971253370986391m_-3722655801600959835gmail-gJ" style="font-size:12.8px"><tbody><tr class="m_8960971253370986391m_-3722655801600959835gmail-acZ"><td class="m_8960971253370986391m_-3722655801600959835gmail-gF m_8960971253370986391m_-3722655801600959835gmail-gK" style="width:495.333px"><table cellpadding="0" class="m_8960971253370986391m_-3722655801600959835gmail-cf m_8960971253370986391m_-3722655801600959835gmail-ix" style="width:495.333px"><tbody><tr><td>William Flynn Wallace <a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a><br><br></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'comic sans ms',sans-serif"> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div></span>What does technology have to do with free will?</blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">Nothing, and it's not just technology. Until somebody coherently explains what "free will" means it has nothing to do with anything.</div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">I'm not asking for anything as ambitious as a proof the humans have (or haven't) free will, I just want to know what the hell the term means.</div></font></div><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">John K Clark </div></font></div></div><div> </div></div><br></div></div>
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