<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Sat, William Flynn Wallace </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​> ​</div>I agree that no action is random, but maintain that all actions are determined.</blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">​There is nothing in logic that demands every event have a cause, quantum mechanics says true randomness exists and from experiment, specifically the observation that Bell's inequality is violated, we know that AT LEAST one of the following 3 concepts about the universe must be untrue:</font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">1) Determinism (everything has a cause and thus nothing is random)</font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4"> </font></div></div><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">2) Locality (the </div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">future can not change the past and distance diminishes the strength and speed of an effect<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​)​</div></span></font></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4"><br></font></div></span></div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">3) Realism (</div></span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">things are in a definite state even if they <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​are not being observed) ​</div></span></font></div><div><br></div><div><font size="4"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'd like all three<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ ​</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​to be true </div>but if I had to give up one of them (and I do)<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ then​</div> I'd give up </span><span class="gmail-il" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">determinism<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​; </div></span><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​t​</div>o my mind it would be the least disturbing, and giving up <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​realism​</div> would be the most disturbing<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​.​</div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​But</div> the universe may not agree with me so for all I know all 3 may be false<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​.</div></span></font></div><div><br></div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​If ​</div>the Everett<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div>interpretation<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ is true then ​</div></font><font size="4">from a point of view that<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ can </div><div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">not</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div>exist, like the viewpoint<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div>of<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ ​</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​</div>somebody<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div></font><span style="font-size:large">standing outside</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div><span style="font-size:large">of</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div><span style="font-size:large">the multiverse looking</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div><span style="font-size:large">back in</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div><span style="font-size:large">at it</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​, </div><span style="font-size:large">all 3 of those attributes, locality</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div><span style="font-size:large">determinism and realism,</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div><span style="font-size:large">can exist together;</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div><span style="font-size:large">but </span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​say I said ​</div><span style="font-size:large">that is a viewpoint that can not exist<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​.​</div></span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div><span style="font-size:large">So </span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​that's like </div><span style="font-size:large">saying if 2+2=5 then 2+2+2=7.</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div><span style="font-size:large">From the viewpoint of any observer anywhere in the multiverse ( in other words from any possible</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div><span style="font-size:large">o</span><span style="font-size:large">bserver) determinism locality</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div><span style="font-size:large">and realism cannot all be true, at least one must be wrong.<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​ </div></span><div><span style="font-size:large"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></span></div><div><span style="font-size:large"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">John K Clark​</div></span></div><div><span style="font-size:large"><br></span></div><div><font size="4"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="4"><br></font></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>