<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Adrian Tymes </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:atymes@gmail.com" target="_blank">atymes@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>I think it is safe to say that free will is solidly within the realm<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>of metaphysics and philosophy, and outside the realm of physics<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>proper.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><font size="4">I think it's safe to say "free will" is not<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>solidly within the realm<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>of<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>anything because nobody knows what the term means.<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>It's very strange, most of the time people expect, almost demand, that individuals have a reason for their actions; if you see someone behaving in an unexpected way you don't understand you ask them "why did you do that?", if their response is<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>"no reason" you'd probably conclude they are a bit nuts, or at least unreasonable. But when talking about "free will" people suddenly switch gears, now they don't want there to be a reason for their actions, and they don't want there to be no reason for their actions either because then they would be random. The truth is they don't know what they want when they talk about "free will". If somebody will be unhappy if X is true and they will be unhappy if X is not true then I fear they are destined to be unhappy.</font><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
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><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">></div> <font size="4">"Free Will" is the inability to know what you've decided to do before<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div></font></span><span class="gmail-"><font size="4">you've decided to do it.</font></span></blockquote><span class="gmail-">
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</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>How about a modification: free will is the inability to know for sure<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>what your eventual decision will have been, before it is expressed in<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>conscious thought and action. </blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">I don't think it adds much to clarity to introduce an illusive </font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">concept like consciousness into a explanation of free will. After all, in the entire universe there is only one being that I have rock solid evidence of being conscious, and unfortunately that evidence is available only to me. </font></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"></blockquote><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>The moment you ask why superdeterminism selects a certain way is the<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>moment you stop talking about science, and start talking about free<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>will.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">If </font></div><font size="4">superdeterminism <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">is true then there is no "why", things just are the way they are and could not have been different and that's that. The entire concept of cause and effect goes out the window. And even then, even if all that is true, I still don't know what "free will" means, much less know if humans have that property or not.</div><br></font></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4"><br></font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4"> John K Clark</font></div></div><font color="#500050"><br></font></div></div></div>