<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">in fact I have no proof that you or anybody else have any subjective experiences at all. john</span><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">It may be that your standards of proof are in question, at the least. You seem to be able to believe that only you, out of over 7 billion people, can be conscious, think, feel, and so on. In other words, the most basic of human qualities.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">I would have to ask you: <b><i>what proof do you have that you are this unique?</i></b> How likely is this? It is far, far less likely than that others experience things in the external world much like you do.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">Ask ten million people, excluding the colorblind, to view a red thing. All ten million call it red. What else do you need?</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">bill w</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 8:05 AM, John Clark <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 10:51 PM, Brent Allsop </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:brent.allsop@gmail.com" target="_blank">brent.allsop@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>Let me ask you what you think I mean when I talk about a "redness
quality"? </div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">Come on Brent, this isn't my first day at the rodeo! I am quite familiar with the </font></div><font size="4">qualia<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> idea and I know the difference between objective and subjective.</div></font></div><span class=""><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div> And would you also agree that an abstracted work like "red" does not have this quality?</blockquote><div><font size="4"><br></font></div></span><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">I would agree that red is a subjective experience and "red" is just an ASCII sequence. </div> </font></div><span class=""><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>And would you agree that something in our brain has this
quality when we experience it? </div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">What's with this "our" and "we" stuff? I have a subjective experience when I experience red but I have no proof that you do, in fact I have no proof that you or anybody else have any subjective experiences at all. </div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">If somebody believes that a digital computer behaving as if it is conscious is insufficient evidence to conclude that it really is conscious and if he wishes to be consistent in his beliefs then there is no alternative but to embrace solipsism.</div></font></div><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> John K Clark </div></font></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>
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