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    <p>Hi William,</p>
    <p>You are the original asker in this thread of subject "Do digital
      computers feel?" right?  I haven't seen you comment on what I've
      been saying.  Hopefully it is evident to you that the theory I
      have been describing predicts an answer to this question and that
      science could soon demonstrably prove such to all of us by
      enabling us to eff the ineffable.  Even John admitted that an
      abstracted word like red does not have a redness quality.  And
      since all information in a computer is this type of abstracted
      information - a computer can represent or emulate or behave as if
      it knows what it is like to feel - but unless it knows how to
      interpret its abstracted representation of feelings (something
      that the theory predicts is possible, but it would then be more
      than just a "digital computer") - a purely digital computer does
      not qualitatively "feel" like we do.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Brent<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/15/2016 10:59 AM, William Flynn
      Wallace wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAO+xQEYheUdJAUPGT3gu13bhO2HGcbyScjxNdEKc8qh+eVzs-Q@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
            style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">in fact I have
            no proof that you or anybody else have any subjective
            experiences at all.  john</span><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
            style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
            style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">It may be that
            your standards of proof are in question, at the least.  You
            seem to be able to believe that only you, out of over 7
            billion people, can be conscious, think, feel, and so on. 
            In other words, the most basic of human qualities.</span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
            style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
            style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">I would have to
            ask you:  <b><i>what proof do you have that you are this
                unique?</i></b>  How likely is this?  It is far, far
            less likely than that others experience things in the
            external world much like you do.</span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
            style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
            style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">Ask ten million
            people, excluding the colorblind, to view a red thing.  All
            ten million call it red.  What else do you need?</span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
            style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span
            style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">bill w</span></div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 15, 2016 at 8:05 AM, John
          Clark <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr"><span class="">
                <div class="gmail_default"
                  style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span
                    style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Wed, Dec 14,
                    2016 at 10:51 PM, Brent Allsop </span><span
                    dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:brent.allsop@gmail.com"
                      target="_blank">brent.allsop@gmail.com</a>></span><span
                    style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br>
                </div>
              </span>
              <div class="gmail_extra">
                <div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><br>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                      0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                        <div class="gmail_default"
                          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​>
                          ​</div>
                        Let me ask you what you think I mean when I talk
                        about a "redness quality"? </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                  </span>
                  <div>
                    <div class="gmail_default"
                      style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​<font
                        size="4">Come on Brent, this isn't my ​first day
                        at the rodeo! I am quite familiar with the </font></div>
                    <font size="4">qualia
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​
                        idea and I know the difference between objective
                        and subjective.​</div>
                    </font></div>
                  <span class="">
                    <div>
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                      0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​>
                        ​</div>
                       And would you also agree that an abstracted work
                      like "red" does not have this quality?</blockquote>
                    <div><font size="4"><br>
                      </font></div>
                  </span>
                  <div><font size="4">
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​I
                        would agree that red is a subjective experience
                        and "red" is just an ASCII sequence. ​</div>
                       </font></div>
                  <span class="">
                    <div> <br>
                    </div>
                    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
                      0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
                      <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
                        <div class="gmail_default"
                          style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​>
                          ​</div>
                        And would you agree that something in our brain
                        has this quality when we experience it?  </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                  </span>
                  <div><font size="4">
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​What's
                        with this "our" and "we" stuff? I have a
                        subjective experience when I experience red but
                        I have no proof that you do, in fact I have no
                        proof that you or anybody else have any
                        subjective experiences at all. ​</div>
                       
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​If
                        somebody believes that a digital computer
                        ​behaving as if it is conscious is insufficient
                        evidence to conclude that it really is conscious
                        and if he wishes to be consistent in his beliefs
                        then there is no alternative but to embrace
                        solipsism.</div>
                    </font></div>
                  <div><font size="4">
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br>
                      </div>
                    </font></div>
                  <div><font size="4">
                      <div class="gmail_default"
                        style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> 
                        John K Clark  </div>
                    </font></div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
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            <br>
          </blockquote>
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