<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Adrian Tymes </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:atymes@gmail.com" target="_blank">atymes@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="gmail-"> John Clark <<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></span></blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"> </blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="gmail-">
><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">></div> <font size="4">Superdeterminism would mean giving up, there would be no point in<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div></font></span><font size="4"><span class="gmail-"> doing science because the universe is determined<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div> (or superdetermined)<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div></span><span class="gmail-"> to make us ask the wrong questions</span></font></blockquote><span class="gmail-">
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</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>Unless we had free will,</blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">What's that?</div> </font></div><div><br></div><div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>so that we could choose what questions we ask<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>without being predestined since the beginning of time to ask those<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>specific questions. </div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">Then it's not superdeterminism or anything close to it. </font></span><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">></div> </span>Like it or not, your objection boils down to "but free will".</blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">So everything is superdetermined except, for some unspecified reason, us. We do thing by "choice" and that means not doing things for a reason because that would be determined and not doing things for no reason because that would be random. Unlike everything else our actions are not determined and also not not determined. Huh? </div> </font></div></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="gmail-">
><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">></div><font size="4"> If some parts are real and some parts are not then an explanation is needed<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div></font></span><span class="gmail-"><font size="4"> to explain the differentiation</font></span></blockquote><span class="gmail-">
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</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>The explanation is that the wave function represents our knowledge of<br>
the thing - of the probabilities for what state it could have given<br>
what has been observed - rather than the actual thing. </blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">T<font size="4">he wave function can't even give us probabilities, only the square of the absolute value of the wave function can do that. So that means 2 very different wave functions </font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">can produce the exact same probability of finding a particle at a point. So if you measure a particle at a point you know where it is but you still don't know what its wave function was at that point, so you don't know what the wave would have evolved into at some other point if you had not measured it and collapsed the wave. </font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4"><br></font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4"> John K Clark</font></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>