<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 12:25 AM, spike <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:spike66@att.net" target="_blank">spike66@att.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><br><div class="gmail-m_-3524951516371734405WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p><div><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"> extropy-chat [mailto:<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat-bounces@<wbr>lists.extropy.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>spike<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, February 04, 2017 8:44 PM<span class="gmail-"><br><b>To:</b> 'ExI chat list' <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.<wbr>org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Huxley or Orwell - who got it right?</span></span></p></div></div><span class="gmail-"><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline" class="gmail_default"><br><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif">I
was really into dystopian future fiction in those years, but back to
the original thought: I never really saw Brave New World as all that
dark. OK so the guy dies, there is that. In 1984, one of them
disappears, but it isn’t clear he perished, and the others live to
copulate, which is way cool when one is a teenager who never gets any
attention.<span class="gmail-HOEnZb"></span></span></p><span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif">spike </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p></font></span></div></span><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"></span></b></p><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)" class="gmail_default"><b>I don't remember thinking much about either book. But I remembered them well and thought everyone should read them, so it must have had some impact on me. Animal Farm, now, was really scary. Was that how things worked in the real world? It turned out that it was far more representative of reality than BNW or 1984. I don't read the dystopian stuff now: life is too short for such darkness. Why anyone would like Romeo and Juliet is beyond me: the both die. Where's the fun in that? Sweet sorrow? Not my gig. Do we learn that life is unfair? Better ways to do that.<br></b></div><p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-3524951516371734405WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"></span></b></p><div><b> I routinely turn to the end of a fiction book and see if my characters survived - happy endings is what I like and scifi has traditionally done that well - almost no tragedy at all. I can't say that the quote has much contact with reality. That is, I don't think the books will warn anyone and prevent any future. How many people's lives have been shaped by fiction? Or even nonfiction, in the case of most people<div>. (I have to exclude religion here, as many have been shaped by religious writings - another category of fiction. So, I am a cynic: shoot m<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline" class="gmail_default">e.) Spike - you want others to read 1984 - what for? What are they going to do after reading it?</div></div></b></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline" class="gmail_default">bill w</div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-3524951516371734405WordSection1"><div><b><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline" class="gmail_default"></div> </div></b></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline" class="gmail_default">.</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-3524951516371734405WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"></span></b></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline" class="gmail_default">bill w</div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-3524951516371734405WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"></span></b></p><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline" class="gmail_default"><b></b></div><b> </b></div><p></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_-3524951516371734405WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"></span></b></p><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline" class="gmail_default"><b></b></div><b>rom:</b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"> extropy-chat [<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@<wbr>lists.extropy.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Flynn Wallace<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, February 04, 2017 5:03 PM<br><b>To:</b> ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.<wbr>org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Huxley or Orwell - who got it right?<u></u><u></u></span><p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><span class="gmail-"><p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 6:26 PM, spike <<a href="mailto:spike66@att.net" target="_blank">spike66@att.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></span><div><span class="gmail-"><blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif">The job of the SF writer is not so much to predict the future as to prevent it. </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></span><div><span class="gmail-"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"arial",sans-serif;color:black">Now just what the hell does that mean? Are you stealing a quote? Many tech advances have been predicted by SF writers. bill w<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif">Ja, I was stealing a quote but I don’t know who it is from and only vaguely remember where I heard it, perhaps 30 or 40 yrs ago…spike<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif">OK now I remember, I heard this quote in high school in 1978, and it was Ted Sturgeon, who was quoting Ray Bradbury who may have heard it from Frank Herbert:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p style="background:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%;vertical-align:baseline"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"helvetica",sans-serif;color:rgb(68,68,68);border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0in">Dear Quote Investigator</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"helvetica",sans-serif;color:rgb(68,68,68)">: I once read an interview with a science fiction writer in which he was asked about predicting the future. The interviewer was disappointed that some of the technological developments heralded in science fiction never seemed to actually happen. The response from the author was unexpected and haunting:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;background:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%;vertical-align:baseline"><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"helvetica",sans-serif;color:rgb(68,68,68)">I don’t try to predict the future. I try to prevent it.<u></u><u></u></span></i></p><p style="background:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%;vertical-align:baseline;margin:1.71429rem;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"helvetica",sans-serif;color:rgb(68,68,68)">I think this answer confused the interviewer, but I understood it. The dystopian stories like Brave New World, 1984, Fahrenheit 451, The Sheep Look Up, and The Machine Stops are not attempting to predict the future. They are trying to prevent the futures that they describe. The identity of the interviewee is fuzzy in my mind and so is the exact wording. Could you look into this quote?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="background:white none repeat scroll 0% 0%;vertical-align:baseline;margin:1.71429rem;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px"><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"helvetica",sans-serif;color:rgb(68,68,68);border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0in">Quote Investigator</span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"helvetica",sans-serif;color:rgb(68,68,68)">: The earliest expression found by<span class="gmail-m_-3524951516371734405apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-family:"helvetica",sans-serif;border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0in">QI</span></b><span class="gmail-m_-3524951516371734405apple-converted-space"><b><span style="border-width:1pt;border-style:none;border-color:windowtext;padding:0in"> </span></b></span>appears in 1977 from the typewriter of the SF great Theodore Sturgeon who credits the remark to another SF luminary Ray Bradbury, the author of Fahrenheit 451 and the Martian Chronicles. In 1978 the idea is attributed to another famed SF writer, Frank Herbert, the author of Dune…<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/10/19/prevent-the-future/" target="_blank">http://quoteinvestigator.com/<wbr>2010/10/19/prevent-the-future/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif">I was really into dystopian future fiction in those years, but back to the original thought: I never really saw Brave New World as all that dark. OK so the guy dies, there is that. In 1984, one of them disappears, but it isn’t clear he perished, and the others live to copulate, which is way cool when one is a teenager who never gets any attention.<span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><u></u><u></u></font></span></span></p><span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif">spike <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br> <u></u><u></u></p></font></span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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