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<p>Hi Stathis,</p>
<p><br>
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<p>Does this help?<br>
</p>
<p>When you talk about "*only observable behaviour*" you are
assuming a definition of "observe" that is completely qualia
blind. There isn't something special about qualia, but there is
something qualitative, which can't be observed by simple "*only
observable behavior*". You can detect and represent qualia with
any physical behavior you want, but you can't know what an
abstracted representation of what you have detected qualitatively
represents unless you know how to interpret that behavior back to
the real thing. In order to include the qualities of conscious
experience into a definition of observation, you must provide a
definition of observe that properly qualitative interpretation of
any abstracted representations into whatever it is that has a
redness quality being observed.<br>
</p>
<p>I imagine a simple-minded engineer working to design a perfect
glutamate detection system that can't be fooled into giving a
false response by any other not glutamate substance or system. It
is certainly possible that some complex set of functions or
physical behavior, like glutamate, is one and the same as
something we can experience as a complex redness, right and that
nothing else will have the same physical function or quality?<br>
</p>
<p>Once your simple minded engineered glutamate detector is working,
it will never find anything that is glutamate in the rods and
wires engineered to simulate glutamate in an abstracted way.
Also, without having the correct translation hardware, you will
not be able to interpret any abstracted representations of
glutamate (redness), as if it was glutamate (redness), let alone,
think it is real glutamate (real redness).</p>
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<p>And of course, when you neural substitute the glutamate and its
detector, out for some simulation of the same, the neural
substitutuion fallacy should be obvious. It will only work when
you completely swap out the entire detection system with something
else that knows how to properly interpret that which is not
glutamate, as if it was representing it. Only then will it be
*observably the same behavior*. But nobody will claim that your
simulation has any real glutamate being used for representations
of knowledge - glutamate being something that physically functions
identically with glutamate (or redness) without any hardware
interpretation mechanism being required.<br>
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<p>Brent<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/3/2017 9:22 PM, Stathis
Papaioannou wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CAH=2ypWHN86jW+4XoW3MFyZyVyQ82gRMo0Xb+PhQ0MzroyHs2Q@mail.gmail.com"
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<div class="gmail_extra m_-3568668105548928074gmail_msg">
<div class="gmail_quote m_-3568668105548928074gmail_msg">I
don't see why it's obviously fallacious or obvious. You
won't engage with what is the relatively simple question
of *observable behaviour*. Humans have moving parts:
molecules, ion currents, ultimately bones which are
pulled by tendons connected to muscles which are
controlled by nerves. Consider just these mechanical
processes. Do you agree that they can be replicated
using alternative materials and devices, for example
tiny electric motors in place of actin-myosin in the
process of exocytosis whereby neurotransmitters are
released into the synapse, titanium rods in place of
bones, artificial isotopes of potassium and sodium? Or
do you think there is some theoretical reason (not just
a practical, engineering reason) why this can't be done
with particular components of a bilogical system - and
if so, what is it that makes those components special?
Please answer this considering . Imagine you are a
simple-minded engineer who has no idea about
consciousness and your job is *only* to examine the part
of the body you are assigned and design a replacement
part using various electrical and mechanical
nanocomponents.<br>
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