<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt">Hi John,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt">I’ve touched
on this before, but it still seems to be a problem in our communication.<span> </span>Within my model, there are multiple types of
qualia, there is composite qualia and elemental qualia.<span> </span>A composite quale is made up of lots of
elemental qualia bound together.<span> </span>So, composite
Brent redness, has all my memories of red bound to it.<span> </span>And composite John red, instead, has all of
Johns memories of red bound to it.<span> </span>And,
there must be some common elemental qualities from which these complex objects
are built.<span> </span>If you strip away all the
memories of red, and you strip away all other information, such as yourself
perceiving it, and so on, you are left with just plain and simple redness.<span> </span>It is very possible that there is some common
qualitative element such as plain redness, that your and my composite redness
qualia share.<span> </span>Whenever I talk about “effing
the ineffable” I am always assuming and talking about an elemental level, that
can be shared between brains, without the qualia having to be Brent-John (or a completely
different person/set of memories than you and I) redness.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"> </p>
Brent<br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 11:28 AM, John Clark <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 , Brent Allsop </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:brent.allsop@gmail.com" target="_blank">brent.allsop@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>I feel like
we’re repeatedly saying many things back and forth, but filing to communicate.<span> </span></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">Me too.</font></div></div><span class=""><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>I’m talking about two types of speaking.<span> </span>There is qualia blind speaking, and there is
speaking that is not qualia blind.<span> </span></div></blockquote><div> </div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">But when communicating with other human beings (or with anything else) you have absolutely positively no way of knowing if the speech is qualia blind or not unless you make certain assumptions, such as if the speech is intelligent then it is not qualia blind. Fortunately it's easy to determine if the speaker is intelligent blind or not, but without the assumption of a link between intelligence and qualia you'd have no reason not to conclude you're the only conscious thing in the universe. </font></div><font size="4"> </font></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>You
seem to be thinking that all the speaking I’m talking about is qualia blind speaking,
and not understanding what I mean by speaking that is not qualia blind.<span> </span><p></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">But how do you know which it is? All you know for certain is that noises are issuing from that other person's mouth, to conclude more you need to make assumptions that you can NOT prove and will never be able to prove, but we all make these assumptions because none of us could function if we really believed we were the only conscious being in existence.</font></div></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>You are not understanding what might enable
someone to be able to make a statement like: “My knowledge of red is like your
knowledge of green” in a way that is demonstrably provable to everyone both
objectively and subjectively,</div></blockquote><div> </div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">You are entirely correct and have hit the core of the matter. I do not understand how even in theory I could prove </font></div><font size="4">both objectively and subjectively<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">that <div class="gmail_default" style="display:inline">my qualia </div></span><span class="">knowledge of red is like your </span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">qualia </div>knowledge of green<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">.</div></font></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>you don’t
seem to understand the implication of being able to connect two brains with
binding systems, enabling two brains to eff the ineffable in the strongest
undeniable way.</div></blockquote><div> </div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">Correct again. I do not understand how a new being called Brent Clark would know what it's like to be either </font></div><font size="4">Brent Allsop<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> or John Clark.</div></font></div><span class=""> <br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>I talk about
a simplistic binding system that is binding two elemental qualitative
representations together. <span> </span>When you replace
half the representations of knowledge with something that is qualitatively
different, in order for the binding system to behave the same,<p></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">Behave the same? </font></div><font size="4"> <span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Brent Clark<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> would be something new, he's not going to behave like </div></span>Brent Allsop<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> nor John Clark. And the same would be true subjectively, when </div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Brent Clark</span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> looks at a red strawberry he'd have no way of knowing if the qualia he's experiencing came from </div>Brent Allsop<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> or John Clark or from neither and was something brand new experienced by nobody else before in the entire history of the world.</div></font></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"> </p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>you
must replace all of the knowledge representations being fed to the binding
system at the same time you replace the entire binding system.<span> </span>Again, so that the system will behave exactly as you and I agree will happen, as the neural substitution progresses. <p></p></div></blockquote><div> </div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">If you swap all my qualia knowledge of red with green then yes my objective behavior will be exactly the same, but my subjective experience will be exactly the same too, I couldn't even tell you'd actually done anything.</font></div></div><span class=""><div><font size="4"> </font></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>I see no evidence that you fully understand the
implications of what I’m trying to describe with all this.<p></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">You see no evidence of understanding because there is none.</font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4"><br></font></div></div><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> John K Clark</div> </font></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div></div></div></div>
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