<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From: extropy-chat [mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org] On Behalf Of Mike Dougherty<br>Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2017 1:26 PM<br>To: ExI chat list <extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org><br>Subject: Re: [ExI] tumbling pyramids again<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>On Feb 18, 2017 11:42 AM, "spike" <<a href="mailto:spike66@att.net"><span style='font-weight:normal'>spike66@att.net</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>BillK, think hard sir, Mike, Adrian, the rest of you smart guys THINK now!<br>If we demonstrate a material dependence or a scale dependence, what have we<br>shown and what can we do with it?<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…Have we considered aero/fluid dynamics if these nanoGizrs (from pyramids at Giza, pronounced nano-geezers?)… <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Heeeeeheheheheheheheeee, nanoGizrs, please sir may we use that as the standard name? We will say nice things about you if anyone wants to trace the etymology.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Good thinking, fluid dynamics. We could make them with only slight negative buoyancy, then stir the water, see how they settle.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>… can be magnetically oriented?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Good thinking, magnetic orientation, don’t know how the heck to deal with that, but in both those examples and the one I already discovered this morning from your scale-dependence you (or somebody) made, once we start considering those, we have square-cube dependencies all over the place. I realized one of those scale-dependencies had to do with the radius of the vertices.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…If we build them from a piezo electric crystals, we might be able to generate charge via stress or apply charge to actuate a bundle of sheets?...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I may misunderstand how piezo crystals work, but I don’t think you can make arbitrary angles with them. They are directional by their nature, and only work in two orthogonal axes, with the third axis producing the excess charge but only if it is free-free in that direction. Have we piezo hipsters among us?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…Would these have any application in your M-Brain scenario?...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Oy vey, I am stumped by some aspects of M-Brains. I think I went waaaay wrong on that whole thing some time ago and I don’t really know what to do: I’ve fallen and I can’t get up.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…How does the pyramid shape affect heat absorb/dissipate?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>If we had M-Brain nodes shaped like pyramids with the square base faced towards the star, we have more area to radiate heat out into cold space, but if the square base faces away, we have more area to collect sunlight and less to radiate.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>The factor causing me to fall and not get up: I did (what I think is) a first-principles calculation on M-Brains that demonstrate energy must be reflected in a low-entropy state absolutely reeeeegaaaaardless of how efficient this or that or the other, regardless of what you are doing with the energy: you must throw some of it away unused or eventually we cook in our own stew. If we extract energy, we create entropy which makes it more difficult to get rid of the waste heat. The real problem is that I am not an expert on entropy, even after all these years on the EXtropy list, I still don’t trust myself on that topic. we need a REAL entropy hipster to come along and get me up.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>…Or, back to the signaling application you originally mentioned. Idk, i like the brainstorming part but i don't have sufficient chemistry/physics/engineering knowledge to know if it's all nonsense or if there might be a few grains of gold in a pile of rocks…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Eh, toss em out here if you wish. My philosophy is that if an idea is bad, no one will ever hear of it again. If an idea is good, someone will eventually trace it back to you and you will be at least famous (but not rich.) Some ideas might make someone else rich, such as Hal Finney with Bitcoin. I am going to claim that whole notion of BitCoin was born right here on ExI-Chat in about 1996, but I don’t mind one nanoparticle if our own gone but never forgotten Hal Finney was the one who took the ball and ran with it. That didn’t cost me anything: I don’t have the computer hipsterity to have done anything with it anyway. Good for Hal’s family. I met his now wealthy widowed bride once a long time ago; she seems like such a nice lady.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Regarding that M-Brain entropy notion, sooner or later, some really smart grad student might get a PhD thesis out of proving the lower limit of entropy any M-Brain must throw away in order to stay in thermal equilibrium. That person might be my own son, or someone might figure it out before he is at that level of sophistication. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>NanoGizrs: you are right on: it is scale-dependent, and several other things dependent. Figuring out the theoretical h is a Sisyphean task, but a fun one. And hey, if we get an explanation for the Big Bang out of the deal, what’s not to like?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Mike were you the one who proposed phi? Want to stay with that answer?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>spike <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:11.5pt'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>