<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">John wrote:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large;display:inline">The hypothesis that John K Clark is the only conscious being in the universe is 100% consistent with every scrap of evidence I have at my disposal. </div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"> </span><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">---------</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">Just what would you accept as evidence contrary to your being the only conscious entity? Is consciousness a variable only in you?</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">Just a reminder: every input to our brain is unconscious before it is conscious (presumably not the same for an AI), and we can behave in certain ways, and can even be biased towards the input before that stimulus enters consciousness. Also, certain stimuli may be blocked for various reasons, such as the person is highly attending to something else, or the input is psychologically dangerous, and yet those stimuli may be retained in the unconscious, to perhaps affect our behavior later. (these things are the things that hypnotic regression studies are trying to get at - which I think are very highly suspicious and should be presumed invalid without more evidence of an objective nature)</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">Another idea: perhaps our consciousness is partly epiphenomenal - sometimes it is in the cause and effect sequence, and sometimes it is just along for the ride and not driving the vehicle at all, just observing.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">Consciousness is the experience of and is totally dependent on stimulus inputs from our environment or the brain itself. No inputs, no consciousness, like Stage 3 sleep. Why make it so complicated?</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">No one willing to tackle my post on dreams?</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:large">bill w</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 4:43 PM, John Clark <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Brent Allsop </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:brent.allsop@gmail.com" target="_blank">brent.allsop@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"> <br></p></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>A critical
part of consciousness intelligence is the ability to be simultaneously aware of
lots of diverse qualitative experiences.<span> </span><p></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">Computers have had multiprocessors for years.</div> </font></div><span class=""><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span> </span></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>Not only is the way we consciously do it,<p></p></div></blockquote></span><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">I hate to keep harping on this but it's important, what's with this "we" business? The hypothesis that John K Clark is the only conscious being in the universe is 100% consistent with every scrap of evidence I have at my disposal. </div> <br></font></div><span class=""><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>by
being aware of all of it at once, much more efficient, it’s easy to see why
evolution used this much more efficiently intelligent system<p></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">Then it would be easier to make a intelligent conscious </div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">computer than a intelligent non-conscious computer. So if you see a computer or anything else (such as one of your fellow human beings) behaving intelligently your default assumption should be that person or thing is conscious. </div></font></div><span class=""><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"> </p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>a minimal example of this kind of efficiently powerfully
intelligent qualitative conscious functionally is something that is doing a
redness function, something that is doing a greenness function, and something
that is able to functionally bind these two (and lots of other stuff) so we can
be aware of both of them at the same time.<span> </span><p></p></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">If the ability to distinguish between red and green (consciously or unconsciously) does not effect behavior then it is irreverent as far as Evolution is concerned how efficiently it functions. So if Darwin was right how did you get the ability to distinguish between red and green? And if it does effect behavior then the Turing Test works for consciousness and not just for intelligence. </font></div></div><span class=""><div><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>I predict,<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>you will still
be able to “eff the ineffable” by binding two brains together in a kind of meta
conscious system<p></p><p></p></div></blockquote></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">When dealing with matters of consciousness person pronouns can mask a lot of logical errors. Who exactly is the referent of the pronoun "you" in the above?</div><span style="font-size:large"> </span><br></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"> </p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>that is bound together (similar to the way your right and left
hemispheres are bound) that can both fully experience “Johns redness”, and “Brent’s
redness” in the same kind of bound together way so you can qualitatively completely
compare the two,<p></p></div></blockquote></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">John Clark will never know what red is like for </font></div><font size="4">Brent Allsop<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">, and </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>Brent Allsop<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> will never know what red is like for John Clark, and John Allsop wouldn't ever know what red is like for either of us, all that fellow would know is what red is like for John Allsop.</div></font></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4"><br></font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4"> John K Clark</font></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>
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