<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">will respond when i get my left hand back - cat scratch infection- nearly had to be in hospital - may yet</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">bill w</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 2:27 PM, John Clark <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><span class="">On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 2:03 PM, William Flynn Wallace <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:</span><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">>> </div>Since my brain works that way it is a reasonable hypothesis that your brain does too, but I'm not able to prove that and never will be able to. john</span></blockquote><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br></span></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"> <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div><font size="2">'Prove' must mean something different to you than it does to me. </font></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">I don't think so.</font></div><font size="4"> </font></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"> <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> <font size="2"></font></div><font size="2">To me it just means test</font></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">You can't test for consciousness, you can only test for observable behavior.</font></div><font size="4"> </font></div><span class=""><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br></span></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>My point is that you can do the same test thousands of times with different subjects and keep getting the same results.</span></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">And none of those results will tell you anything about consciousness unless you use the axiom that consciousness is a unavoidable byproduct of intelligence, because unlike consciousness I can directly detect intelligence in people and things other than myself. <br><br></font></div></div><span class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">><font size="2"> </font></div><font size="2">Say you show them a red rose. All except the male color blind will respond 'red'. </font></span><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">A fMRI will show much
the same firings in their brains from the same areas. Thus prediction
of what they say and what went on in their brains is nearly 100%
accurate.</span></font></div></div></blockquote></span><div><br><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">And if I type R-E-D into a Speak and Spell from the 1980's it </font></div><div><font size="4">will say "red", maybe you're no more conscious than that old toy was. I will never be able to find any evidence for or against such a theory. Or maybe that old Speak and Spell was as conscious as I am. I will never be able to find any evidence for or against that theory either. </font><br> </div></div><span class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div><font size="2">A fMRI will show much the same firings in their brains from the same areas. Thus prediction of what they say and what went on in their brains is nearly 100% accurate.</font></span></div></div></blockquote></span><div><br><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">I don't see how a fMRI machine would be any better at directly detecting consciousness than we are. And I can predict what a Speak and Spell will say nearly 100% of the time, but that is no evidence it's conscious.<br><br></font></div></div><span class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div> <font size="2">Now I agree that one cannot show that the experience is exactly the same (but similar, that I would assume),</font></span></div></div></blockquote></span><div><br><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">Your brain is similar to mine but it is not identical, if it were then you would be me. My working assumption is that those differences are not critical for the formation of consciousness but I don't know that for a fact. So although my hunch is that its not true the possibility remains that John K Clark is the only conscious being in the universe; I would estimate that possibility to be about the same as the possibility a computer will never pass the Turing Test. </font></div><font size="4"> <br><br></font><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4"> John K Clark</font></div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br></div></div>
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