<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>On Mar 28, 2017, at 2:38 PM, John Clark <<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 Dan TheBookMan </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:danust2012@gmail.com" target="_blank">danust2012@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span style="font-size:12.8px"> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>As I asked before, you'd have to do a little more analysis, such as looking at historical rates of longevity.</span></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">The USA has gone backward. In 1960 </font></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Note the changes in medical legislation from 01956 onward. Would you say that has nothing to do with this?</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">the USA had the 16th longest lived people, in 2015 they had the 31th longest lived. </font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><a href="http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/history-of-life-expectancy">http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/history-of-life-expectancy</a>.</div> </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Was there more or less federal involvement in healthcare before 01960? If you're going to use simplistic reasoning here, then please use it across the board. ;)<div><br></div><div>Also, I'm saying we look at all the nations under discussion. If you want to try to figure out causes, don't you agree we need to do this? Or is it just find the statistic you like and stick with that? Do you want to do data analysis or just do pretend science by factoid?<br><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">></div>you wouldn't want to bet people's lives on just taking a statistic out of context, would you?</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">The average cost verses average life expectancy is not a </font></div><font size="4">out of context<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> statistic, and yes I'd bet my life on that.</div></font></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You can bet your life on it, though the problem here, for me, is betting everyone else's life and freedom on it.</div><div><br></div><div>(I know you'll misread this too. I'm not arguing the US system is free. It's definitely one of huge government intervention. In many ways, more than many other Western nations.)</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>Have you also looked at nations that have shorter than the US life expectancy to see if they all don't have single payer systems?</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size:large;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">What could we learn from that? You'd expect countries that spend less on healthcare would have shorter lived citizens<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">,</div> and every country in the world spends less than the USA, the <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">big </div>surprise is the 30 countries that spend significantly less but live longer, and it is from them we should look. </span></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>My point is you have to look at more than just tote factoid. In this case, you'd have to make sure you're comparing like to like... Let me try another example that you'll ignore, but others might benefit from. Smoking rates are lower in the US than in Japan. The Japanese life expectancy is higher. Would you argue we should get US-Americans to smoke more? I hope not. (I'm not, for the record, saying the cases are exactly the same. The presumption is smoking causing mortality and more healthcare causes more health. The problem in both cases is that other things cause mortality and changes in health.)</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><span></span><span><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>I'd also be careful of accusing people of being emotionally attached or ideologically driven when they disagree with you.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">Be honest Dan, if the 30 single payer countries I mentioned spent twice as much on healthcare as the USA and yet their citizens had shorted lives than the USA would you be complaining about </font></div><font size="4"> sampling errors<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> and</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div>experimental<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> bias? We both know you wouldn't. </div></font></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><br></div><div>To be honest, John, it's not entirely honest on your part to avoid my questions based on how you feel I might have answered were the data different. In a word, you're sidestepping in inconvenient questions. If you're only interested in pretending you're objective, logical, and scientific here, please continue to attack others rather than answer substantive issues they raise.</div><div><br></div><div><div style="line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: 20px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Regards,</span></div><div style="line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: 20px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div><div><div style="line-height: normal;"><span style="line-height: 20px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Dan</span></div><div style="line-height: normal;"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> Sample my Kindle books via:</span></div><div style="line-height: normal;"><font color="#000000" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><a href="http://author.to/DanUst" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">http://author.to/DanUst</a></font></div></div></div></body></html>