<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><br>Hi Stathis,<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 4:38 PM, Stathis Papaioannou <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stathisp@gmail.com" target="_blank">stathisp@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class=""></span><p style="font-size:12.8px">Given the above scenario, do you agree that all the neurons will fire in the same sequence? If you disagree, what is triggering them to fire differently that the scientist has failed to observe? Don't say "redness" or "the binding system" - what specific thing was the glutamate molecule doing that G3 is not doing, which the scientist missed?</p><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">I keep
answering these same question over and over again.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Yes, I agree, given what you describe all the
neurons will fire in the same sequence and all behavior will be the same.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>But, despite me clearly answering this
question, you always seem to assume that I disagree.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>And you say: “Don't say "redness"
or "the binding system".<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>But
I’m not saying “redness” or the “binding system” in the case you are
describing, where I agree with you, that everything will fire the same.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">The problem
is, we each keep talking about something completely different.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>“redness” or the “binding system” has nothing
to do with the incomplete scenario you are describing.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>You seem to think that because I’m trying to
talk about “redness” and the “binding system” that I disagree with you that
everything will fire the same, in your case.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>I’m not doing this.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I’m just
saying that “redness” and the “binding system” (which we know consciousness
has) has nothing to do with the simplistic scenario you are describing.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Perhaps it
will make things easier if we just focus on an objective view of things, and
ignore “redness” all together.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>The
system we want to “neuro substitute” is a glutamate detector.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>We artificially design a special detection
system that can compare a reference item (i.e. glutamate) with a second input
item being tested.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>It is a perfect
system, in that if you present real glutamate, it will always fire with a “this
is the same as the reference” signal.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>Anything, that is not glutamate, will prevent the system from firing,
indicating they are not the same, or that it isn’t glutamate.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Now, this
kind of detection system is what we want to neuro substitute.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>The system you describe, always fires the
same, so the system you are neurosubstituting may not be performing the
necessary reliable detection of glutamate.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>You seem to make the claim, that your system that always fires the same,
will be able to do things like do qualitative comparisons or detect real
glutamate.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>I agree with you, that if
everything behaves the same, that it will still be able to do qualitative
comparison, or detection of real glutamate.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>So, I’m describing a bit more detail, about the system you are talking
about, so that it can perform the detection of real glutamate.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>But, no matter how I do this, you always
insist, that the system will not detect glutamate, as it will fire the same,
indicating it is glutamate, even when it is not glutamate.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>After the neuro substitution, in order for it
to function the same, it must still be able to reliably perform its necessary
function of detect real glutamate.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">All I’m
trying to say is, I agree with you, that if what you describe is true, it will
always function the same.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>All I’m doing,
is enhancing the description of the system, so that it can reliably detect real
glutamate.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>If you do this, and if the
system can reliably detect real glutamate, both before and after the
substitutuion, you won’t have hard problems, such as an overly simplistic
substitution seeming to prove there is no such thing as reliably detectable real
material glutamate.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Brent</p>
<br><br></div></div>