<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Stathis wrote: <span style="font-size:12.8px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">The studies try to find a correlation between awareness or awareness and patterns in the brain. They do not demonstrate consciousness.</span><span style="font-size:12.8px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-size:12.8px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-size:12.8px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">-----</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-size:12.8px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">Is there a difference between awareness and consciousness?  I would equate them.  bill w</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-size:12.8px;font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div class="gmail_quote" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​<font size="4">How on ​earth are they ever going to do that unless they first make the assumption that there is a link between behavior and consciousness?  </font></div><font size="4"> </font></div><div class="gmail_quote" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><font size="4"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_quote" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">​John K Clark​</div></font></div><div class="gmail_quote" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div class="gmail_quote" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">You poke someone who is asleep and get no behavior. You poke them when awake and they might poke you back.  Clear link between behavior and consciousness/awareness/ alertness/pick your term.  You don't need assumptions when you have clear correlations between stages of consciousness and behavior.</div></font></div><div class="gmail_quote" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></font></div><div class="gmail_quote" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">bill w</div></font></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 12:18 AM, Stathis Papaioannou <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stathisp@gmail.com" target="_blank">stathisp@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><div>On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 at 10:23 am, William Flynn Wallace <<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_default m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large" class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg">And there are no scientific facts about consciousness,   John wrote</span><br class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg"></div><div class="gmail_default m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large" class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg"><br class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg"></span></div><div class="gmail_default m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large" class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg">--</span></div><div class="gmail_default m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large" class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg">It seems to me that quite a few EEG type studies have been done trying to locate the center of consciousness. </span></div><div class="gmail_default m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large" class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg"><br class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg"></span></div><div class="gmail_default m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large" class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg">There are studies of subliminal perception also, which involve influencing the person while bypassing consciousness.</span></div><div class="gmail_default m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large" class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg"><br class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg"></span></div><div class="gmail_default m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large" class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg">Are these not scientific?  I do acknowledge that there are tons of junk around about this subject, mostly from philosophers.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>The studies try to find a correlation between awareness or awareness and patterns in the brain. They do not demonstrate consciousness. This is why for a long time scientists thought consciousness was bullshit - you couldn't study it scientifically.</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_default m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large" class="m_-2533039250923534330gmail_msg"></span></div></div>
</blockquote></font></span></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Stathis Papaioannou</div>
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