<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Stathis Papaioannou <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stathisp@gmail.com" target="_blank">stathisp@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:12.8px" dir="auto"><span><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail-im">On Apr 2, 2017 22:46, "Stathis Papaioannou" <<a href="mailto:stathisp@gmail.com" target="_blank">stathisp@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"></span><blockquote class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail-m_2683848510843480609quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><span class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail-im"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail-m_2683848510843480609quoted-text"><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-size:12.8px"><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail-m_2683848510843480609elided-text"><br><br></div>It is not obvious that a computation about nature can be conscious, but neither is it obvious that it cannot.<font color="#888888"><br clear="all"><div><br></div><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail-m_2683848510843480609m_2068019221341716712gmail_signature">Stathis Papaioannou</div></font></div></div><br></span><span class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail-im">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>extropy-chat mailing list<br><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://lists.extropy.org/mailm<wbr>an/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><br><br></span></blockquote></div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail-h5"><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><span style="font-size:small">On 3 April 2017 at 14:17, Will Steinberg </span><span style="font-size:small" dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:steinberg.will@gmail.com" target="_blank">steinberg.will@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-size:small"> wrote:</span><br></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail-h5"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail-">On Apr 2, 2017 22:46, "Stathis Papaioannou" <<a href="mailto:stathisp@gmail.com" target="_blank">stathisp@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"></span><blockquote class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail-m_2683848510843480609quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid"><span class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail-"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail-m_2683848510843480609quoted-text"><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-size:12.8px"><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail-m_2683848510843480609elided-text"><br><br></div>It is not obvious that a computation about nature can be conscious, but neither is it obvious that it cannot.<font color="#888888"><br clear="all"><div><br></div><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail-m_2683848510843480609m_2068019221341716712gmail_signature">Stathis Papaioannou</div>
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<br></span></blockquote></div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto">All the 'computations about nature' that have ever been and will ever be discussed in this list were *designed by conscious beings*, also known as consciousness.</div><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto">You're making the same mistake as the Chinese Room, which is neglecting the fact that someone had to build the room itself.</div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br></div></div>Are you implying that it would make a difference how the entity whose consciousness was in question was made? For example, consider three identical robots, one made by humans, the second by weird aliens, the third thrown together from spare parts by a tornado: would you expect that they would have different consciousnesses?<span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail-m_-639166614990364612gmail_signature">Stathis Papaioannou</div>
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<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>No. Of course, in identically constructed robots, each consciousness would have different contents and individuate each robot. But the robots would have their consciousness originate in the same kind of physics (the same kind of matter arranged and behaving in the same kinds of ways). It's the essential kind of physics of it that matters. In 'being' that, and only that kind, arranged in the same way, that makes it 'like something' to be that matter. In my case, as you probably know, that physics is the EM field system. Dorian Aur would have it originate only from ions in a cellular context. I would have it originate using electrons in an inorganic context. ... And the quantum mechanics comes along for the ride. An EM field account of consciousness is also a quantum mechanical account of consciousness. But ... I digress.</div><div><br></div><div>Colin</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br>
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