<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">John wrote: After all, if a human genius could explain exactly how he does what what he does we could just follow his advice and we'd all be geniuses too. But a human genius doesn't understand exactly how his mind works and neither would a smart program.</span><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">-------------------</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">Two things: One - no one can state what process preceded the behavior, whether physical or mental - all unconscious. I disagree with John in that a genius is probably using something mental that is not available to the rest of us, whatever it may be. Could anyone be trained to be a Tesla? Nope.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">Two - if we really want to make some AI perform like a person we will have to figure out some way to install emotions in it. Studies show that all decisions we make are in part emotional. Just look how apparently intelligent people can believe the incredible things that they do - read about Newton for example and his wild ideas.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">I think what we want in an AI is totally rational thinking - no judgment as to whether the decision is 'liked' or 'fun'. Emotions are just too variable, changing by the moment according to who knows what 'logic'. A policeman shoots a man running away from him and nearly instantly regrets it. We certainly don't want decisions like that from an AI. (that officer just got 20 years in jail). </span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">With incredibly advanced technology, we might be able to follow the paths of a thought or action in a brain, noting what parts were involved and in which order. That's the what. Why, how, the meaning of it - totally hidden. How to get another brain or computer to do that? Impossible.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">So I ask - do we really want to model an AI after a human brain? I say no. Human thinking is just far too irrational.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:large">bill w</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 8:10 PM, John Clark <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 7:32 PM, Dave Sill </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:sparge@gmail.com" target="_blank">sparge@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> <br></div></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>AlphaGO has no understanding of the games it plays. It can't explain its strategy</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">A human player couldn't explain exactly why he made the move he did rather than the astronomical number of other moves he didn't even consider, he would just say that from experience I know when the board is in this general sort of position only a small number of moves is even worth considering, and I had a good feeling about one of them so I made it. I imagine </div>AlphaGO <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">would say much the same thing. After all, if a human genius could explain exactly how he does what what he does we could just follow his advice and we'd all be geniuses too. But a human genius doesn't understand exactly how his mind works and neither would a smart program.</div></font></div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div> that's excessively anthropomorphic</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">That is not a dirty word, I think we should </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">anthropomorphise things if they are intelligent as we are. </div></font></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><font size="4">John K Clark</font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><br></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>
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