<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Maybe they don't want to blend in. They shouldn't have to. And they shouldn't have to measure up to your standards of worthiness.  Dave</span><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">I am a liberal and support welfare to the needy.  The Indians are needy because they have a depressed culture full of alcoholism, drug addiction, crime,and a high suicide rate.  Would you leave these people alone to suffer?   I would try to help, but the status quo is not working.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">If they are going to be members of this society, they need to contribute to it.  I think that's a standard everyone, liberal or conservative, will support.  Otherwise how can they respect themselves?  Maybe they don't, and that's their basic problem.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">I agree with no reparations: black, Indians, anyone.  This reminds me of original sin, the idea that Adam and Eve sunk all the rest of us by their disobedience.  Humbug.  I am not responsible for what my ancestors did, and the offspring of the victims are not harmed by what was done to their ancestors.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Many black leaders have bemoaned the welfare system as destroying the black culture, taking away incentives to marry the woman they impregnated, get and hold jobs, etc.  Maybe the same could be said of the Indians.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Help people get on their feet, and THEN leave them alone.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">bill w</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 11:55 AM, Dave Sill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sparge@gmail.com" target="_blank">sparge@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:04 PM, William Flynn Wallace <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span class="m_9148227325673200974gmail-"><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div></span>I am hardly without sympathies for all the people Europeans slaughtered and decimated with small pox, though it was just like what always happens with two cultures with far different technology clash.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><span class=""><div>You said:</div><div><br></div><div>  The Indians should have, from the beginning, appropriated American's culture and just blended in to it.</div><div><br></div></span><div>I don't think anything short of evacuation would have appeased the Europeans. The problem wasn't that the natives refused European culture (which they had every right to do), it's that the natives stood in the way of greedy and insensitive Europeans.</div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">It's not so much blame the victim to me, it's just that they did not have the right stuff to compete with Europeans.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Maybe it shouldn't always be about competition. Maybe we should elevate ourselves to the level respecting others' rights and cultures.</div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">And still don't.  You can argue heredity/environment endlessly, but what American Indians have accomplished, before and after we came, is very little.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Yeah, this 60000-structure city built 1500 years ago had nothing on ancient Europeans:</div><div><br></div><div>    <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5365015/New-images-reveal-Mayan-megalopolis-stunning-detail.html" target="_blank">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/<wbr>sciencetech/article-5365015/<wbr>New-images-reveal-Mayan-<wbr>megalopolis-stunning-detail.<wbr>html</a><br></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Other groups with mindbending poverty, illness, oppression, and so on in their backgrounds, have blended in - assimilated.  Not so American Indians.  Look at the California Vietnamese.  Doughnut czars now.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Maybe they don't want to blend in. They shouldn't have to. And they shouldn't have to measure up to your standards of worthiness.</div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">On the positive side, the Indians now have all the opportunities of modern society, health care, food stamps, TV, firewater, which they would maybe never have had had they been left alone for another thousand years.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Oh, yeah, that's a huge positive. I'm sure they're thrilled and thankful for having met us. :rolleyes:</div><span class=""><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Dave?  Do you think we owe them endlessly?  Reparations forever?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>No, we can't undo the damage that's been done. But we can stop inflicting more and we can leave them the fuck alone.</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>-Dave</div></font></span></div></div></div>
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