<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Ah, the wise white man thinks he understands the problem and has a fix. Hallelujah!    dave</span><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">This is not an intelligent person's way of having a discussion.  Don't get sarky with me and I will return the favor.  bill w</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">dave  <span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">They've lost most of their culture and are forced to live on land that can't really support life. </span></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><span style="font-size:19.2px">---</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><span style="font-size:19.2px">I don't think it is true that they cannot leave the reservation.  Where did you get that idea?  Perhaps they can't leave the reservation and still get government handouts.  And just who is failing to let them regain their culture?  OK, so they can't go roaming around killing bison and white settlers.  What else are we restricting them from?  And I don't see where anyone is forcing 'fixes' on them, but I really don't know.  And I also don't know what good, if anything, has come from leaving them alone.  They need to get off their asses, off alcohol, off drugs, and get a life of their choosing.  I have no idea how to facilitate this or whether we just should leave them alone.  Some people just won't be helped - they'd rather sit and be miserable.  If I am wrong, show me.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><span style="font-size:19.2px"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><span style="font-size:19.2px">To get a bit technical, the murders of Indians, the forced shoving them around, putting them in places they did not want to be, and all that, perhaps created a cultural 'external locus of control' situation.  (If you had an inner one, you'd be sure that you could solve your own problems.  Outer = others have to do it for you).  Surely the Indians recognized the far superior nature of the European culture and also their powerlessness to resist it.  (Another technical term here is 'learned helplessness')</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><span style="font-size:19.2px"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><span style="font-size:19.2px">bill w</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Dave Sill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sparge@gmail.com" target="_blank">sparge@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 5:16 PM, William Flynn Wallace <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">I am a liberal and support welfare to the needy.  The Indians are needy because they have a depressed culture full of alcoholism, drug addiction, crime,and a high suicide rate.  Would you leave these people alone to suffer?   I would try to help, but the status quo is not working.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Why do they have a depressed culture? Maybe it was because their recent ancestors were driven from their land, decimated by diseases to which they had no resistance, and forced to give up their language and culture. </div><span class=""><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">If they are going to be members of this society, they need to contribute to it.  I think that's a standard everyone, liberal or conservative, will support.  Otherwise how can they respect themselves?  Maybe they don't, and that's their basic problem.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Ah, the wise white man thinks he understands the problem and has a fix. Hallelujah!  </div><span class=""><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">I agree with no reparations: black, Indians, anyone.  This reminds me of original sin, the idea that Adam and Eve sunk all the rest of us by their disobedience.  Humbug.  I am not responsible for what my ancestors did, and the offspring of the victims are not harmed by what was done to their ancestors.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>I agree that we aren't responsible for what our ancestors did but I absolutely disagree that that natives today were not harmed by that. They've lost most of their culture and are forced to live on land that can't really support life. </div><span class=""><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif">Help people get on their feet, and THEN leave them alone.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>I say that it's OK to help them is they ask for help. It's not OK to presume to know what they and force it on them. That's the "leave them alone" part.</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>-Dave</div></font></span></div></div></div>
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