<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span class="gmail-im" style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><i><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>I fail to see how all those statistics you gave about the Muslims support your case for genetics. bill w</i></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">But it does support my case that I wasn't </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">stereotyping Muslims as you claimed I was, </div></div>john</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Nope - you did not react to my statement that Muslim terrorists were a very tiny part of the Muslim world, no matter what people say on surveys. A few thousand out of a billion Muslims - yes, that's stereotyping bill w</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Yes, people learn quite well starting from before birth. But that does not make a case for genetic tendencies to learn from parents and to obey them. A generalized learning ability, genetic, of course, can take care of that easily. (There are specialized ones, too, like in prepared learning - phobias). It is also easy to learn contrary opinions from others. What do tots and teens think when their parents disagree? When the parents disagree with the holy person?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">They grow up confused with all the opinions available, and that's why we think teens are confused -they are. They have learned some contradictory things from parents and other adults. But a main form of their learning, as several books show, including Judith Harris', is from peers. Peers, while one is a teen, outrank everybody, despite the clear fact that one's peers often don't know any more than the person does, and is very often wrong (I taught sex. I know how wrong they can be and where they got that 'knowledge'. Not from adults.)</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">If there is any genetic tendency to hear and obey parents, it's mostly gone by the teen years.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Religions survive, I think, because of social pressure of one kind or another - family, mostly, including extended family. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">What does a person say when he is asked, or asks himself, just who he is? Religions affiliation is usually noted, if not first, then, shortly thereafter. Family, tribe, state, nation, etc. All exerting social pressure to be like the others in your affiliations.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">bill w<br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:07 PM, John Clark <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 1:08 PM, William Flynn Wallace </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class=""><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">>><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"> </div> <span style="font-variant-ligatures:normal">if the devout didn't think the very young didn't have such a tendency they would not place such emphasis on having religious grade schools and even religious kindergarten.</span></blockquote><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div></span><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"><span style="font-size:19.2px">></span><i> </i></div><span class=""><i>I'd say that that was a good argument for the opposite: believing that environment had to install the values. </i></span></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div>I'd say the environment had to install the values too, and the most important part of that environment is what adults say. And what adults say now depends on what their mommy and daddy said to them many years before.</div></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><i><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>and I'll bet it doesnt' work very well.</i></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><b>WHAT?!</b> If indoctrinating the young didn't work extraordinarily well how on earth could Christianity have survived for 2000 years when it doesn't make one particle of sense? Think about it, God is homicidally angry with the entire human race because one man was naughty and ate an apple when told not to, and even though He is omnipotent He is unable to forgive them unless they torture His son, who He loves very much, to death. Only after they've finished with the butchery and His son has died in agony can the atrocity of eating the apple be forgiven<br></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><i><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>I fail to see how all those statistics you gave about the Muslims support your case for genetics. </i></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">But it does support my case that I wasn't </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">stereotyping Muslims as you claimed I was, </div></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span style="font-size:19.2px"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">></div> </span><i>People are not sheep.</i></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">The two things are not identical but there are certainly similarities .</div> </div><span class=""><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><i><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>you don't need genes here except for those involved in learning, esp. social learning - who tells who what to do is noticed by tots and up. </i></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div class="gmail_default">If the tots didn't believe that what they were told was true there would be nothing to learn socially.<font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">John K Clark</font></div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>
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