<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 3:48 PM, John Clark <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span class=""><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 12:49 PM, William Flynn Wallace </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div></span><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class=""><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span class="m_6167363337181242104gmail-"><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-size:small"> </span><br></div></span></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"> <i> <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div>Let me see some data on how far-out ideas don't change. </i></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Ideas don't get much further out than Christianity, an omnipotent being is unable to do something, unable to forgive the human race because one of them ate a apple unless they torture His son to death. So answer me this, do you think this comically stupid idea could have survived for generation after generation for 2000 years if it was customary for people to receive no religious instruction before the age of 17? I mean, its already customary for people to receive no calculus instruction before the age of 17, so why not religion too?<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline">---------</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline">I have no idea what would happen if religious instruction came late. I suspect that would never happen - people want people indoctrinated. I do know that the ideas of virgin birth, walking on water, bringing people back from the dead, going instantly to heaven, changing water to win, and all the rest and more, were ideas that were around before, sometimes long before Jesus was born - if he was. Check out what was said about Hercules. Wacko ideas are very common, as you know, and not only among the illiterate and </div> <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline">unintelligent. Case in point: Isaac Newton.</div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline"><br></div></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline">bill w</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline"></div><br></div><span class=""><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">> </div><i>To John - all I meant by free will was that a person could examine his beliefs in light of the evidence of his experiences and his reading and other sources of information, and change them. </i></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline"></div>That's the scientific method but it doesn't come naturally to us, even scientists have to struggle to make sure they adhere to it because, unlike <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline"></div>a gene to believe that what adults say is true, Evolution did not provide us with a scientific method gene and its easy to see why. If I refused to believe what adults said about which fruits were good to eat and which ones were poisons and insisted on seeing for myself by eating one strange fruit after another one by one and noting the physiological effects it had on me I'd soon end up dead. </div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;display:inline">John K Clark </div> </div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,0);display:inline"></div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">a gene to believe that what adults say is true, john</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">If you want to believe that I'll not criticize you at all, but I think that kids are more tentative about what they believe. Told something is poisonous has not stopped a few children from doing what they were told not to do. What parents say just gets tossed in with all the rest: teachers, preachers, neighbors, other kids. A child may wind up not believing in their parents at all. Kids have actually legally divorced parents. "This hurts me more than it hurts you" What child has ever believed that?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">My parents were Christians. I am a naturalist. They were conservatives. I am a liberal. I believe some of what they believed and told me, and some of it was just wrong, as I discovered later. I do not believe that I am an outlier here.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">bill w</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div>
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