<div dir="ltr">I would just like to chime in on the question; <span style="font-size:12.8px">Should the US Have a Military Presence in Space?</span><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">That's also assuming we don't have some sort of presence out there already.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Somebody does. Its just that even after 18 years of research, im not quite sure who it is.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">It would be smart to conquer space, it just requires the application of a living philosophy.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">The gift of space travel requires responsibility and humility - a military presence is not the correct approach.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">-V</span></div></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
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</table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 25 June 2018 at 11:56, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-request@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat-request@lists.extropy.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send extropy-chat mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Should the US Have a Military Presence in Space?<br>
(William Flynn Wallace)<br>
2. Max More, Seth Blaustein, Tim Urban and Natasha @ The<br>
Assemblage NY City! "Humanity Unbound. (Natasha Vita-More)<br>
3. Re: Should the US Have a Military Presence in Space? (Ben Zaiboc)<br>
4. Merging of agencies [ was Should the US Have a Military<br>
Presence in Space?] (SR Ballard)<br>
5. Anders Sandberg (Keith Henson)<br>
6. Koko dead at 46 (Stuart LaForge)<br>
7. Re: Anders Sandberg (Giulio Prisco)<br>
8. Re: Anders Sandberg (Dan TheBookMan)<br>
9. Re: Anders Sandberg (BillK)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>----------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 11:11:47 -0500<br>
From: William Flynn Wallace <<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com">foozler83@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.<wbr>org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Should the US Have a Military Presence in Space?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAO+xQEY9W-5O07SQ73siT+7r=-<a href="mailto:30ufUDDMnnj-_V9roNSjoxjA@mail.gmail.com">30<wbr>ufUDDMnnj-_V9roNSjoxjA@mail.<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 11:05 AM, John Clark <<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 6:33 PM, <<a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com">spike@rainier66.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
>> ?> ?<br>
>> *Does the United States need a Space Force branch of the military?*<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
?How many intelligence agencies do we have? Way too many, because they<br>
compete with each other, withholding information, just like the military<br>
ones do. How many agencies get involved with a disaster, like FEMA?<br>
Several, and yes, they do compete.<br>
<br>
Proliferation of agencies (when was the last time you heard of one being<br>
merged or just closed?) is a very poor thing, it seems to me. Another<br>
variety of pork.<br>
<br>
bill w?<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> extropy-chat mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/<wbr>mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-<wbr>chat</a><br>
><br>
><br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 17:04:48 -0700<br>
From: "Natasha Vita-More" <natasha@natasha.cc><br>
To: "'ExI chat list'" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.<wbr>org</a>>,<br>
<<a href="mailto:ieet-news@ieet.org">ieet-news@ieet.org</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] Max More, Seth Blaustein, Tim Urban and Natasha @ The<br>
Assemblage NY City! "Humanity Unbound.<br>
Message-ID: <008901d40b4e$f7c4c710$<wbr>e74e5530$@natasha.cc><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Greetings!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
You are invited to attend the July 19 "Humanity Unbound" event at The<br>
Assemblage:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
* Date: July 19, 7-10 PM<br>
* Location The Assemblage, 114 East 25th Street, NY, NY 10010<br>
* Tickets: <a href="https://events.theassemblage.com/humanityunbound" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://events.theassemblage.<wbr>com/humanityunbound</a><br>
<br>
* If you are members of Alcor, please email me for the discount code.<br>
Thank you.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
See you there!<br>
<br>
Natasha<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<<a href="http://www.natashavita-more.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.natashavita-more.<wbr>com/</a>> Dr. Natasha Vita-More<br>
<br>
Professor, Graduate and Undergraduate Departments,<br>
<<a href="https://www.uat.edu/about-uat" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.uat.edu/about-uat</a><wbr>> UAT<br>
<br>
Executive Director, <<a href="http://www.humanityplus.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.humanityplus.org/</a>> Humanity+, Inc.<br>
<br>
Author and Co-Editor:<br>
<<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Transhumanist-Reader-Contemporary-Technology-Philoso
phy/dp/1118334310/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1519771534&sr=8-1&keywords=the+tran" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/<wbr>Transhumanist-Reader-<wbr>Contemporary-Technology-<wbr>Philoso<br>
phy/dp/1118334310/ref=sr_1_1?<wbr>ie=UTF8&qid=1519771534&sr=8-1&<wbr>keywords=the+tran</a><br>
shumanist+reader> The Transhumanist Reader<br>
<br>
Lead Science Researcher:<br>
<<a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4620520/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/<wbr>pmc/articles/PMC4620520/</a>> Memory Project<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/natasha-vita-more-phd-380363/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/<wbr>natasha-vita-more-phd-380363/</a>><br>
<<a href="https://www.facebook.com/NatashaVitaMorePublic/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/<wbr>NatashaVitaMorePublic/</a>><br>
<<a href="https://twitter.com/NatashaVitaMore?lang=en" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/<wbr>NatashaVitaMore?lang=en</a>> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 08:15:05 +0100<br>
From: Ben Zaiboc <<a href="mailto:ben@zaiboc.net">ben@zaiboc.net</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Should the US Have a Military Presence in Space?<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:5B2F44F9.8060908@zaiboc.net">5B2F44F9.8060908@zaiboc.net</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed<br>
<br>
Seeing as there are no space-aliens, presumably this Space Force would <br>
be intended to defend the <tongue-in-cheek>'free <br>
world'</tongue-in-cheek> from the Chinese, so trumplogically, the <br>
Chinese would pay for it.<br>
<br>
The only thing we can be sure of, though, is that it wouldn't be <br>
intended to defend the earth from asteroid strikes.<br>
<br>
<br>
Ben Zaiboc<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 22:51:07 -0500<br>
From: SR Ballard <<a href="mailto:sen.otaku@gmail.com">sen.otaku@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.<wbr>org</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] Merging of agencies [ was Should the US Have a Military<br>
Presence in Space?]<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:6E2347F2-6A6E-46A4-90C5-3802E6F1096C@gmail.com">6E2347F2-6A6E-46A4-90C5-<wbr>3802E6F1096C@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
The US really does have a proliferation of agencies which compete. For example: CIA, FBI, NSA, etc. I think it would be cheaper to combine them somehow, so they could pool resources and intelligence. It doesn?t seem to me that this type of redundancy is useful.<br>
<br>
As far as agencies being merged... well, Trump is floating a merger of Department of Education and Department of Labor, into, I?m not sure, maybe a Department of Education, Training, & Employment. Not sure if I agree with the move because his motives seem suspect, but we?ll see how it plays out.<br>
<br>
But another thing to consider is maybe we actually need more agencies/ departments. Which sounds insane, I know, but hear me out. Look at all the agencies and departments involved with the US Immigration system. They are absolutely inefficient and make the whole system insufferably complicated, because ?one hand doesn?t know that the other hand is doing?. And that makes accountability hard, because they can all just point fingers at each other. <br>
<br>
The entire US government is way too bloated and redundant in all the wrong ways. It?s definitely ?too big? in the sense that it could do more with less. Maybe we need to go through with the pain and expense of reorganizing and streamlining the whole thing.<br>
<br>
> On Jun 23, 2018, at 11:11, William Flynn Wallace <<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com">foozler83@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
>> On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 11:05 AM, John Clark <<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 6:33 PM, <<a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com">spike@rainier66.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> <br>
>>> <br>
>>> ?> ? Does the United States need a Space Force branch of the military?<br>
>> <br>
> ?How many intelligence agencies do we have? Way too many, because they compete with each other, withholding information, just like the military ones do. How many agencies get involved with a disaster, like FEMA? Several, and yes, they do compete.<br>
> <br>
> Proliferation of agencies (when was the last time you heard of one being merged or just closed?) is a very poor thing, it seems to me. Another variety of pork.<br>
> <br>
> bill w? <br>
>> <br>
>>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>> extropy-chat mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
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>> <br>
> <br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> extropy-chat mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 21:30:58 -0700<br>
From: Keith Henson <<a href="mailto:hkeithhenson@gmail.com">hkeithhenson@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.<wbr>org</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] Anders Sandberg<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAPiwVB6J3vKOuMFaVxxnV%2BD8h3eN58Xy4_FO-bwysBDkCrXNqA@mail.gmail.com">CAPiwVB6J3vKOuMFaVxxnV+<wbr>D8h3eN58Xy4_FO-bwysBDkCrXNqA@<wbr>mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"<br>
<br>
I thought of Anders as the most interesting person on the Extropy<br>
list. Unfortunately, he left some times ago. He still does<br>
interesting stuff, I noticed this today<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.rt.com/news/430736-aliens-search-fermi-paradox/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.rt.com/news/<wbr>430736-aliens-search-fermi-<wbr>paradox/</a><br>
<br>
Eric Drexler is one of the co-authors.<br>
<br>
"The researchers assigned each of the equation?s parameters a range<br>
from the smallest to the largest values they could possibly have,<br>
based on current knowledge. This revealed that in a third of the<br>
cases, the galaxy would be absolutely devoid of intelligent life<br>
anywhere else but Earth. In other scenarios, however, there could be a<br>
large number of civilizations."<br>
<br>
If civilizations are common and we don't see or hear from any of them,<br>
that has dire implications for humanity's future. But if they are<br>
really uncommon, then our future is unknown and without precedent.<br>
Which is a lot better than being doomed.<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Keith<br>
<br>
PS, the actual paper is here: <a href="https://arxiv.org/pdf/1806.02404.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://arxiv.org/pdf/1806.<wbr>02404.pdf</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 21:13:47 -0700<br>
From: "Stuart LaForge" <<a href="mailto:avant@sollegro.com">avant@sollegro.com</a>><br>
To: "Exi Chat" <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.<wbr>org</a>><br>
Subject: [ExI] Koko dead at 46<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:ec4fafb4ec01d94964a3a3cc5a8360a4.squirrel@secure199.inmotionhosting.com">ec4fafb4ec01d94964a3a3cc5a836<wbr>0a4.squirrel@secure199.<wbr>inmotionhosting.com</a>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8<br>
<br>
Koko the lowland gorilla, famous for being the first non-human creature to<br>
master a human language (American Sign Language) died unexpectedly last<br>
Tuesday June 18, 2018 in her sleep. Among her accomplishments are the<br>
acquisition of a 1000 word sign language vocabulary, the use of mirrors to<br>
groom herself, the teaching of sign language to other apes, and the use of<br>
sign language to express sophisticated counter-factual ideas such the<br>
desire to have children, lies, and even "jokes".<br>
<br>
<a href="http://time.com/5318710/koko-gorilla-life/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://time.com/5318710/koko-<wbr>gorilla-life/</a><br>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqJf1mB5PjQ" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=FqJf1mB5PjQ</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Having found out about this just after reading Anders and Drexler's new<br>
article about the Fermi Paradox, I experienced an intense feeling of<br>
existential loneliness and grief difficult to describe and quite<br>
unexpected given that she was a gorilla and moreover one I had never met.<br>
<br>
Stuart LaForge<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 07:34:32 +0200<br>
From: Giulio Prisco <<a href="mailto:giulio@gmail.com">giulio@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.<wbr>org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Anders Sandberg<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAKTCJyepWhTv-29vGvsCnrkx35h=<a href="mailto:XrXCeMzOx8kmsoO_RK2%2Bcw@mail.gmail.com"><wbr>XrXCeMzOx8kmsoO_RK2+cw@mail.<wbr>gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"<br>
<br>
Awesome, as everything that comes from Anders. Why did he leave the<br>
list? Does anyone know?<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 6:30 AM, Keith Henson <<a href="mailto:hkeithhenson@gmail.com">hkeithhenson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I thought of Anders as the most interesting person on the Extropy<br>
> list. Unfortunately, he left some times ago. He still does<br>
> interesting stuff, I noticed this today<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://www.rt.com/news/430736-aliens-search-fermi-paradox/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.rt.com/news/<wbr>430736-aliens-search-fermi-<wbr>paradox/</a><br>
><br>
> Eric Drexler is one of the co-authors.<br>
><br>
> "The researchers assigned each of the equation?s parameters a range<br>
> from the smallest to the largest values they could possibly have,<br>
> based on current knowledge. This revealed that in a third of the<br>
> cases, the galaxy would be absolutely devoid of intelligent life<br>
> anywhere else but Earth. In other scenarios, however, there could be a<br>
> large number of civilizations."<br>
><br>
> If civilizations are common and we don't see or hear from any of them,<br>
> that has dire implications for humanity's future. But if they are<br>
> really uncommon, then our future is unknown and without precedent.<br>
> Which is a lot better than being doomed.<br>
><br>
> Best wishes,<br>
><br>
> Keith<br>
><br>
> PS, the actual paper is here: <a href="https://arxiv.org/pdf/1806.02404.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://arxiv.org/pdf/1806.<wbr>02404.pdf</a><br>
><br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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Message: 8<br>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 23:38:42 -0700<br>
From: Dan TheBookMan <<a href="mailto:danust2012@gmail.com">danust2012@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.<wbr>org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Anders Sandberg<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:E5243238-8A59-4ACB-B1F7-184BC802524B@gmail.com">E5243238-8A59-4ACB-B1F7-<wbr>184BC802524B@gmail.com</a>><br>
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<br>
On Jun 24, 2018, at 10:34 PM, Giulio Prisco <<a href="mailto:giulio@gmail.com">giulio@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Awesome, as everything that comes from Anders. Why did he leave the<br>
> list? Does anyone know?<br>
<br>
Too much partisan politics, IIRC. And he publicly stated this, IIRC.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Dan<br>
Sample my Kindle books at:<br>
<a href="http://author.to/DanUst" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://author.to/DanUst</a><br>
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Message: 9<br>
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 11:55:25 +0100<br>
From: BillK <<a href="mailto:pharos@gmail.com">pharos@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: ExI chat list <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.<wbr>org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [ExI] Anders Sandberg<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAL_armg62OuSZ8Z-H2_ys%2Bnp0OD0J9k%2BH%2BKTGj3vaeNGP-bYYg@mail.gmail.com">CAL_armg62OuSZ8Z-H2_ys+<wbr>np0OD0J9k+H+KTGj3vaeNGP-bYYg@<wbr>mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
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On 25 June 2018 at 05:30, Keith Henson wrote:<br>
> I thought of Anders as the most interesting person on the Extropy<br>
> list. Unfortunately, he left some times ago. He still does<br>
> interesting stuff, I noticed this today<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://www.rt.com/news/430736-aliens-search-fermi-paradox/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.rt.com/news/<wbr>430736-aliens-search-fermi-<wbr>paradox/</a><br>
><br>
> Eric Drexler is one of the co-authors.<br>
><br>
> "The researchers assigned each of the equation?s parameters a range<br>
> from the smallest to the largest values they could possibly have,<br>
> based on current knowledge. This revealed that in a third of the<br>
> cases, the galaxy would be absolutely devoid of intelligent life<br>
> anywhere else but Earth. In other scenarios, however, there could be a<br>
> large number of civilizations."<br>
><br>
> If civilizations are common and we don't see or hear from any of them,<br>
> that has dire implications for humanity's future. But if they are<br>
> really uncommon, then our future is unknown and without precedent.<br>
> Which is a lot better than being doomed.<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
I think the big mistake is to assume that advanced technological<br>
civilisations will be pretty similar to us, but maybe with faster<br>
rockets and a nicer iPhone. :)<br>
Humans have only had 'advanced' tech for about a hundred years and<br>
look at the difference! The next 100 years will see the internet, AI,<br>
robot intelligences, nanotech, life extension, disease cured, birth<br>
rate dropping drastically, VR and total dependence on social systems<br>
and connectivity, etc. etc.....<br>
<br>
Now think about a few thousand years, still a blink of an eye in universe time.<br>
We have no conception of what the motivations and culture will be for<br>
these really advanced civilisations. Spamming and polluting the galaxy<br>
is obviously not one of their objectives. :)<br>
<br>
BillK<br>
<br>
<br>
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End of extropy-chat Digest, Vol 177, Issue 7<br>
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