<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><big style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">I think the best counter to the morality question is to direct them back to their own holy books, and ask why, for instance, they don't own slaves, beat their wives, work<span> </span><span class="gmail-aBn" tabindex="0" style="border-bottom:1px dashed rgb(204,204,204)"><span class="gmail-aQJ" style="top: 2px; z-index: -1;">on Sunday</span></span>, avoid wearing mixed fabrics etc., etc. (best not ask these kind of questions of islamic fundamentalists, though!).</big><span class="gmail-HOEnZb" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><font color="#888888"><br><pre class="gmail-m_5439820865519743530moz-signature" cols="72" style="white-space:pre-wrap">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre></font></span>I went to a Southern Baptist college for three years (the first thing I would pick if I could change my earlier life), and I can tell you what they say when you confront them with contradictions. Ask why women don't wear something on their heads in church (mandated in the New Testament), and they get a little embarrassed and say that well, it's just a custom and that was back then, and this is now, and it doesn't have anything to do with being holy, and so on.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Then ask them if some things are relative only to the time when the Bible was written and some things are eternally true, how do you decide which is which? Which is absolute? I have never gotten any answer to this one.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">The Old Testament is generally ignored by the Baptists except when they find something they like there. Leviticus in particular is avoided. (My OT prof taught us that wine in those days was like Coca Cola - we were way too afraid of him to differ).</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Hypocrisy abounds, as we all know.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Ben is right in that religious courses tend to be Christian and proselytizing. But that's not to say that it can't be done right. I would have it taught as a history course. The first thing I would teach: Empiricism, Rationalism, Authoritarianism, Intuitionism. And so would many other teachers and that's why it is not taught at all. Protestants in general in my experience don't want students taught how to think. They want them taught what to think.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">bill w</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Ben Zaiboc <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ben@zaiboc.net" target="_blank">ben@zaiboc.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span class="">
<br>
<div class="m_5439820865519743530moz-cite-prefix">On 04/08/2018 17:38,
<a class="m_5439820865519743530moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:extropy-chat-request@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat-request@lists.<wbr>extropy.org</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
</span><blockquote type="cite"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">We
sadly need religion taught in schools, despite the biases and
evils that can occur.</span></blockquote>
<br>
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">It
has been amazing to me the number of people who ask how atheists
can have any kind of morality outside of religion, and even
assuming that we don't! </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">We
sadly need religion taught in schools, despite the biases and
evils that can occur.</span></span>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br>
<big><br>
</big></span></div>
<big><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:19.2px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"></span>We
badly need education <i>about</i> religion, that I'd agree
wholeheartedly.</big><br>
<big><br>
Sadly, 'religious education' seems to always consist in religious
indoctrination, and is biased towards the particular religion that
holds sway where the students happen to live. Even when the RE
includes other religions, it still takes a superstitious,
supernatural worldview as the norm, and doesn't actually
investigate what religions actually are, how they arise, and why.</big><br>
<br>
<big>I think the best counter to the morality question is to direct
them back to their own holy books, and ask why, for instance, they
don't own slaves, beat their wives, work on Sunday, avoid wearing
mixed fabrics etc., etc. (best not ask these kind of questions of
islamic fundamentalists, though!).</big><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<pre class="m_5439820865519743530moz-signature" cols="72">--
Ben Zaiboc</pre>
</font></span></div>
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