<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Can you give me a source for average IQ for Downs? <div><br></div><div>What I found was this (which is quoted everywhere): average IQ for downs is 50-60 (sorry that I wrote 70 earlier)</div><div><br></div><div>Mosby’s Medical Dictionary p560</div><div><br><div><br>On Nov 12, 2018, at 2:11 PM, William Flynn Wallace <<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com">foozler83@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">I took graduate classes in Mental Retardation and worked with them in the nearby hospital, so I think I do know what they can do, though it is true that most of the Down's Syndrome people you see on TV and as baggers are outliers in their populations, some near normal range. IQ 25 is the average for Down's disease (should not be called syndrome, since that word means that we don't know what is causing it, which we do - trisomy of chromosome 21 - ditto for AIDS, which should now be called HIV infection) Speaking of tri-, I remember a question on Trivial Pursuit about a triorchid goat. As if goats weren't bad enough.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 1:14 PM SR Ballard <<a href="mailto:sen.otaku@gmail.com">sen.otaku@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><span></span></div><div>>IQ of 25 that can bag groceries<div><br></div><div>An IQ of 25 would be 5 standard deviations below average, and likely would render someone unable to do something even as basic as bagging groceries, because of lack of ability to handle novel situations (such as new package designs, etc). Most individuals in this realm of IQ have suck profound disability that that cannot be trusted to go to the bathroom alone, and most cannot speak or walk. <br><div><br></div><div>“<span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Individuals with profound mental retardation are unable to work, live alone or care for themselves.”</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">“A large portion of these individuals live in highly supervised homes and receive assistance for their basic needs, such as eating, bathing and getting dressed. Even when a person with profound retardation lives at home with family, they often require the help of a nurse or other specialist.”</span></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://psychcentral.com/encyclopedia/profound-mental-retardation/" target="_blank">https://psychcentral.com/encyclopedia/profound-mental-retardation/</a><br><br><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">“These individuals cannot live independently, and they require close supervision and help with self-care activities. They have very limited ability to communicate and often have physical limitations.”</span></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK332877/" target="_blank">https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK332877/</a><br><br>Since the average IQ for Downs is between 50 and 70, an IQ of 25 is a very significant impairment and would likely prevent the bagging of groceries. </div><div><br></div><div>However, you know, I don’t detect “any behavior” from the sun. It for example will not answer any IQ questions, giving it a score of 0 because the IQ test requires human-centric verbal and spacial abilities. The human bias would likely render the test unusable with anything which is not “human-like”.<br><br><div id="m_4042026687039454708AppleMailSignature">SR Ballard</div><div><br>On Nov 12, 2018, at 11:06 AM, William Flynn Wallace <<a href="mailto:foozler83@gmail.com" target="_blank">foozler83@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> Ok, here is time-lapse video footage of your test subject Mr.</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">> Psychologist. Watch its behavior and then get back to me on what you think</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">> its IQ is and why:</span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">></span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">> </span><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tmbeLTHC_0" rel="noreferrer" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tmbeLTHC_0</a><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">></span><br style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">> Stuart LaForge</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Maybe it's just too early in the day for me to 'get it'. What with my heat tolerance being so low, I did not try to get close enough to the subject to perform the test, so I have to say it's untestable. Since it is doing what it designed to do perfectly, then I have to say, given its very limited behavior range, it's like a person with an IQ of 25 who can bag groceries very adequately. Perhaps that person has Down's Syndrome. They have a reputation for having a sunny personality.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font color="#000000" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font color="#000000" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">So what should I be getting out of this?</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font color="#000000" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><font color="#000000" face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">bill w<br></font><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">></span><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at 6:11 PM Stuart LaForge <<a href="mailto:avant@sollegro.com" target="_blank">avant@sollegro.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Billw wrote:<br>
<br>
> (will get back to you on the attached video tomorrow) bill w<br>
<br>
Ok. Feel free to watch it sped up by 2x. You can do that from the options<br>
menu.<br>
Just be warned, it makes the subject appear somewhat menacing. ;-)<br>
<br>
Stuart LaForge<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at<br>
> 5:18 PM Stuart LaForge <<a href="mailto:avant@sollegro.com" target="_blank">avant@sollegro.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> Bill Wallace wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
>> I obviously don't have the math or philosophy background to understand<br>
>> these things, but if reality shows me one thing and logic and math<br>
>> another, I'll go with reality.<br>
><br>
> But you are limited in your senses and can only directly sense a<br>
> relatively small slice of reality. You cannot see UV light but a honeybee<br>
> can. Reality looks very different to a honeybee than it does to you.<br>
><br>
> Furthermore, you are not only limited by senses but by your brain as<br>
> well.<br>
><br>
> Your brain cannot process everything at once so it filters what you<br>
> notice to that which has been important to your survival. This is<br>
> demonstrated by such things as the Inattentional Blindness and other well<br>
> documented effects.<br>
><br>
> Through technology, you can extend the range your senses yes. Gathering<br>
> data by doing experiments will certainly help as would careful statistical<br>
> analysis of the data and good data storage.<br>
><br>
>> Consciousness is a physical reality with<br>
>> which you can do experiments with testable hypotheses.<br>
><br>
> Ok, here is time-lapse video footage of your test subject Mr.<br>
> Psychologist. Watch its behavior and then get back to me on what you think<br>
> its IQ is and why:<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tmbeLTHC_0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tmbeLTHC_0</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> Stuart LaForge<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
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<br>
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