<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Any speculations please?<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">spike</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">It turns out that there 'cultures' created by children - I don't know how many - ask a sociologist or developmental psychologist. There are all sorts of rules as to what is appropriate and what isn't. And they may be passed on to the next class by observation. So a 7th grader leaves the grammar school culture and enters the prehigh school culture. The language is different. The attitude towards the other sex is different, and so on. Unfortunately they pass on a lot of false information, particularly about sex. You simply would not believe what my college kids believed, or at least were exposed to, as they told me.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">To the topic of violence, perhaps they changed the culture. The school may have had an influence, but mainly they did it themselves. Outside influences from teachers and parents particularly unwelcome.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Girls did it as well as boys. What was in or what was out was determined by the leaders in the class. Wear the wrong thing and you were exiled and shunned. </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">You need a developmental psychologist for this and I am not one.</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">bill w</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></p></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 11:21 AM <<a href="mailto:spike@rainier66.com">spike@rainier66.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_8873256234581555805WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat-bounces@lists.extropy.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>SR Ballard<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] Children’s Rights<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black">If we are moving away from a physically violent culture I'd like to see the data. (yes, don't send me a link to Pinker's book - that's worldwide and we are talking about individuals)<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black">bill w<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">>…I’m not even sure how to provide data on something for that, since it’s based on changing cultural perceptions. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">>…For example what I got away with doing at school versus what it seems like the consequences now are for those same actions. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">>…SR Ballard<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">The kinds of data we might be able to get would be suspensions from school for fighting. We realize that any little scuffle is now classified as a fight, whereas back in my day (imagine voice characteristics of the two wisecracking geezers in the balcony from the Muppet Show) a full on balled fist punch fest was a minor scuffle, so long as it failed to meet at least one of three criteria: at least one broken bone, at least one lost tooth or at least one drop of blood on the ground. Without meeting something on that short list, no score. <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">If the combatants were female, then torn clothing could qualify (the girls tended to tear off each others’ clothing rather than honest fisticuffs, which always drew a huge enthusiastic audience. If the combatants were approximately the same size, no disciplinary action was necessary.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Unfortunate for the victim: in the case of a criminal assault, generally both the miscreant and the victim were charged as equal combatants in the case of an unprovoked attack. Usually aggressor and victim shared the same punishment (gory details available on request.)<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Those kinds of fights happened with a frequency of every few weeks while I was in the lower grades.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Now: poof! Gone. This is a great surprise to me that such a problem I long considered ordinary human nature underwent such fundamental change.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">We can get records of school suspensions if you know how to get to them (which are public domain in California if the punishment includes an invitation to leave the campus for 3 or more days.)<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">My son went thru kindergarten thru 6<sup>th</sup> grade at the same school. In that entire time, he never witnessed even a scuffle. I personally was involved in three of these, and I am a very peaceful sort. In the seven years he was at that school, there was exactly one suspension, and this was for a fight that occurred off campus with no third party witnesses! (Why the hell the school thought it needed to be involved in that is a mystery to me.)<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Somehow… schools figured out how to get boys to stop fighting. Had they even asked me before I witnessed it, I would have offered incorrect advice: forget it, fighting is human nature, you can’t change it, let em fight, sweep up the debris afterwards. I was wrong: they changed that.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Any speculations please?<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">spike<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
extropy-chat mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a><br>
</blockquote></div>