<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Thu, Jul 18, 2019 at 10:43 AM Dave Sill <<a href="mailto:sparge@gmail.com">sparge@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">>> </span>People were always asking human geniuses like Einstein and Feynman how they got their ideas but they could never give satisfactory answers, if they could we'd all be as smart as they were.</font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>At least Einstein and Feynman could talk intelligently about abstract concepts.</i></div></div></div></blockquote><div> </div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">They couldn't talk intelligently about all <span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">abstract concepts, such as why they are so intelagent because they didn't know how their mind worked any better than you know how your mind works.</span></font></div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">></span> <i>no, I don't think that knowing how they got their ideas would one as smart as they were.</i></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">If you knew how they did it then you could do it too, but even they didn't know how they did it.</font></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>They weren't special because of their knowledge, they were special because of their intelligence.</i></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font size="4" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font><font size="4">If it was not given to you on a silver platter but you had to deduce it from next to nothing then I'm not sure if intelligence or knowledge is the best word to describe it but I am sure of one thing, it doesn't matter.</font></div></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div></div><div><font size="4"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">>> </span>I don't know what you mean by that, the changes that the program made in its own code is the very thing that made it </font>extraordinary; if it only used the code that the humans had written it would play lousy Poker.</font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>You're mistaken about how it works. From</i> <a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02156-9" target="_blank">https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02156-9</a>:</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">I find nothing in that article that contradicts anything I said. </font></div></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><i></i></div><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>Pluribus isn't modifying it's own code. When I said it'd say "I just pick the statistically best play", that was overly simplified. It more like "I pick the statistically best play and continually look at my previous play and try different things and adjust the probabilities so I can do better next time".</i></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4">Dave<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">, a program is just code. If a program has changed its behavior then the code must have changed. If a human didn't change the code and the program received no new input from the outside world then from the process of elimination it must have been the program itself that changed the code. And if that change resulted in it making more money playing Poker then the program has become more intelagent.</span></font></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"></font><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="4"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">>> </span>I think you're whistling through the graveyard. Everyday the field of AI's expertise becomes less narrow, and the super impressive thing is we didn't teach them how to do it, they taught themselves.</font> </font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>I think you're anthropomorphizing. </i></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">Of course I'm <span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">anthropomorphizing, but you almost make that sound like a bad thing.</span></font></div></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>Intelligence isn't everything, John.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4">Intelligence<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> may not be everything but results certainly are, and AI advances has resulted in the number of tasks that humans can do better than machines becoming smaller every day.</span></font></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>You have to consider motivation, drive, understanding, knowledge, abilities, etc.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"></font><font size="4">Why? You can use all the above excuses and no doubt find many more to explain away why you were outsmarted by a machine, but it wouldn't change the bottom line result, you were outsmarted by a machine.</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font size="4"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font size="4"> John K Clark</font></div></div></div>