<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div class="gmail-gs" style="margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 20px;width:1016px;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:medium"><div class="gmail-" style=""><div id="gmail-:c0" class="gmail-ii gmail-gt gmail-adO" style="font-size:0.875rem;direction:ltr;margin:8px 0px 0px;padding:0px"><div id="gmail-:c1" class="gmail-a3s gmail-aXjCH" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;overflow:hidden;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:small;line-height:1.5"><span class="gmail-im" style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><br></span>That's the point. Consequentialists can choose what seems to them to<br>be an extremely "good" objective and that gives them licence to do<br>anything that helps to achieve that objective. No matter how "evil"<br>their actions might be. Though of course they should limit themselves<br>to causing less damage than the "good" that they are aiming for.</div><div id="gmail-:c1" class="gmail-a3s gmail-aXjCH" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;overflow:hidden;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:small;line-height:1.5"><br></div><div id="gmail-:c1" class="gmail-a3s gmail-aXjCH" style="overflow:hidden;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:small;line-height:1.5"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">But you are still judging them by your standards, which I assume are based on intent (?).  I agree with you all the way,</font></div><div id="gmail-:c1" class="gmail-a3s gmail-aXjCH" style="overflow:hidden;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:small;line-height:1.5"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">but consequence only or intent only does not work for me, the first for the reasons you are giving, and the second</font></div><div id="gmail-:c1" class="gmail-a3s gmail-aXjCH" style="overflow:hidden;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:small;line-height:1.5"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">for inability to prove intent.  All the more reason to teach moral reasoning starting very young - in schools.</font></div><div id="gmail-:c1" class="gmail-a3s gmail-aXjCH" style="overflow:hidden;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:small;line-height:1.5"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div id="gmail-:c1" class="gmail-a3s gmail-aXjCH" style="overflow:hidden;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:small;line-height:1.5"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">bill w<br></font><div class="gmail-yj6qo gmail-ajU" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;outline:none;padding:10px 0px;width:22px;margin:2px 0px 0px"><div id="gmail-:ee" class="gmail-ajR" tabindex="0" style="background-color:rgb(232,234,237);border:none;clear:both;line-height:6px;outline:none;width:24px;border-radius:5.5px"><img class="gmail-ajT" src="https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif" style="background: url("https://www.gstatic.com/images/icons/material/system/2x/more_horiz_black_20dp.png") 50% 50% / 20px no-repeat; height: 11px; opacity: 0.7; width: 24px;"></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail-hi" style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;border-bottom-left-radius:1px;border-bottom-right-radius:1px;padding:0px;width:auto;background:rgb(242,242,242);margin:0px"></div></div></div><br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 1:20 PM BillK via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Sun, 25 Aug 2019 at 16:59, William Flynn Wallace wrote:<br>
><br>
> But this is a contradiction.  If the end justifies the means, then the means are not morally dubious.  Logical error here.<br>
> (no, I am not a consequentialist)<br>
><br>
> bill w<br>
><br>
<br>
That's the point. Consequentialists can choose what seems to them to<br>
be an extremely "good" objective and that gives them licence to do<br>
anything that helps to achieve that objective. No matter how "evil"<br>
their actions might be. Though of course they should limit themselves<br>
to causing less damage than the "good" that they are aiming for.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
BillK<br>
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</blockquote></div>