<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">Many thanks. I assume you got my email, sent to the group, which included the web site of your doctor. So I read it all. I am already on metformin for very borderline diabetes II.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">I emailed your doctor and we'll see what he says. I found Rapamune on Wikipedia and it seems to be the one we are talking about - about $150 a month with discount. will also ask my pharmacist. The prescription is for 30 pills, but you say take it once a week, eh? So it really isn't $150 a month unless you are taking 30 pills once a week!!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">bill w</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 10:54 AM Dylan Distasio via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Bill-</div><div><br></div><div>I probably should have been more clear with my terminology as I was speaking casually with my terms :-). I'll respond to your questions and provide some additional background.</div><div><br></div><div>Rapamycin is a drug, not a supplement which is its own can of worms unfortunately. It has an extremely interesting history IMO, as the basis of it comes from a microorganism discovered in the soil of Easter Island. It's one of these serendipitous scientific discoveries. It eventually went on to be commercialized and used as part of an immune suppressing cocktail in organ transplant patients. It may seem paradoxical to be talking about using an immune suppressor to fight aging and improve the immune response, but like many drugs, it's all about dosing.</div><div><br></div><div>At high daily levels of intake, rapamycin will suppress the immune system. At lower, less frequent doses, it does not have the same effects. As a result, people experimenting with it for life extension/healthspan purposes generally take a dose once a week that a patient taking it for immunosuppression would be taking daily. Rapamycin has a half live of around 72 hours so even taking it once a week will result in multi day benefits in theory. That's what I meant by pulsing. I only take it once a week.</div><div><br></div><div>If you're interested in exploring the biochemistry angle, reading up on mTOR is the best starting point. mTOR stands for mammalian (or mechanistic) Target of Rapamycin. It's the complex that rapamycin (and metformin through a different spot in the pathway) interact with. mTOR is heavily involved in nutrient sensing and figuring out if you are well fed or starving. At the risk of oversimplification, rapamycin/metformin potentially trick your body into activating a lot of beneficial pathways that are activated when the body senses we are not getting enough calories. It's the same idea behind calorie restriction advocates who IMO lead a difficult lifestyle that I'm not interested in. I won't got further into mTORC1 versus mTORC2 other than to say again that the idea behind taking a single dose weekly is to get the good effects from mTOR inhibitors like rapamycin while minimizing the bad ones.</div><div><br></div><div>So back to the drug angle...While it is possible to get rapamycin in bulk from Chinese manufacturers, I would NOT recommend this. Beyond having to go through the hassle of getting a third party to provide purity analysis (which I consider mandatory), the dosing is in low milligrams which makes it more difficult to measure. Anyways, you may also find some sellers online that will do it without a prescription but I don't recommend that route either.</div><div><br></div><div>If you are interested in trying it, I would recommend checking out the website of Dr. Alan Green at <a href="https://rapamycintherapy.com/" target="_blank">https://rapamycintherapy.com/</a>. He was a retired physician who is around your age (slightly older now I believe) who was experiencing a lot of negative aging effects including what he diagnosed as an enlarged heart. He was getting winded walking the dog up a neighborhood hill and decided to research aging remedies in the literature. He came across rapamycin (and metformin) as potential therapies, and to cut to the chase, spent a year+ self experimenting with rapamycin. Anecdotally, he had great improvements in his cardiac profile (rapamycin is known to improve the effects he was experiencing in dogs), and felt better overall. He then decided to reopen a practice for rapamycin (and potentially metformin) therapy so people could actually get an off label prescription for rapamycin. </div><div><br></div><div>In theory, you could get your own physician to write you a prescription for rapamycin but I think you will find they don't know anything about the drug, and if they quickly look it up, they will think you are crazy in asking for an immunosuppressor which is the on label use. If they are open to learning and not gunshy, you might be able to convince them to give it to you off label.</div><div><br></div><div>In my case, I went to see Dr. Green because I am in his geographic area. He charges a very reasonable fee, will respond to follow up questions, and was a really nice guy in person. I spent most of an afternoon chatting with him during our consult. He is old school and will not attempt to put stuff through insurance (which would likely deny it anyways, but you could try on your own). </div><div><br></div><div>If you do decide you want to experiment with it, and find a prescription, I would recommend you also download the GoodRx app or something similar. It's great for any meds not covered by insurance FYI and I strongly suggest checking it out. It will give you substantial discounts on most meds including rapamycin and make the cost a lot more manageable. You are probably looking at around $1200 for a year's supply of rapamycin with the discount.</div><div><br></div><div>An alternative to rapamycin that would be easier to procure, is very cheap, and generally very well tolerated would be metformin. It is in the same ballpark in terms of suppressing mTOR but without getting into the details may not be as effective while still providing many benefits. Metformin would probably cost you a few dollars for a 90 day supply as it is generic and cheap. If you do go with metformin, please supplement B12 as it can affect your ability to absorb it in the gut long term.</div><div><br></div><div>I also want to say that it should go without saying, I'm not a doc or giving medical advice, and while I believe both of these drugs are safe when used properly, I am shooting in the dark here along with everyone else self experimenting and there are risks, and you should do a lot of your own due diligence before making a decision. </div><div><br></div><div>I'm happy to answer any additional questions to the best of my ability if you decide to go down the rabbit hole though.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Sep 8, 2019 at 11:08 AM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">> I've been pulsing rapamycin for close to a year with no noticeable side effects. Taken once weekly, the idea is it maximizes hitting mTORC1 and minimizes hitting mTORC2. The literature indicates the anti aging effects are from the former and the negative side effects from the latter. dylan</span><br></div><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">I Googled all these terms and determined that I needed a couple of course in biochemistry. first, what does 'pulsing' mean? Ditto 'hitting'. Second, where did you get your supplement? </font></span></div><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><br></font></span></div><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">I am 77, in pretty good health, and practically never have any side effects of anything, so maybe I am a good candidate for this rapamycin. Please tell me all you can.</font></span></div><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><br></font></span></div><div style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">Thanks! bill w</font></span></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div></div>
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