<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;padding:20px 0px 0px;font-size:0.875rem;color:rgb(34,34,34)"><br><table cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse;margin-top:0px;width:auto;font-size:0.875rem;letter-spacing:0.2px;display:block"><tbody style="display:block"><tr style="height:auto;display:flex"><td style="white-space:nowrap;padding:0px;vertical-align:top;width:556.348px;line-height:20px;display:block;max-height:20px"><table cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse;table-layout:fixed;width:556px"><tbody><tr><td style="display:flex"><h3 style="overflow:hidden;font-size:0.75rem;font-weight:inherit;margin:inherit;text-overflow:ellipsis;letter-spacing:0.3px;color:rgb(95,99,104);line-height:20px"><span><span name="Brent Allsop via extropy-chat" style="color:rgb(32,33,36);font-size:0.875rem;font-weight:bold;display:inline;vertical-align:top;letter-spacing:0.2px;line-height:20px">Brent Allsop via extropy-chat</span></span></h3></td></tr></tbody></table></td><td style="text-align:right;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:top;display:block;max-height:20px"><div style="padding:0px;display:flex"><span id="m_-2816734363292664106gmail-:ko" title="Dec 19, 2019, 11:00 AM" alt="Dec 19, 2019, 11:00 AM" style="vertical-align:top;margin:0px;font-size:0.75rem;letter-spacing:0.3px;color:rgb(95,99,104);display:block;line-height:20px">11:00 AM (12 minutes ago)</span><div title="Not starred" style="display:inline-block;height:20px;margin-left:20px;outline:0px"><span style="display:inline-flex;height:20px;text-align:center;width:20px;padding:0px;margin:0px;border:none;outline:none"></span></div></div></td><td style="text-align:right;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:top;display:flex"></td><td rowspan="2" style="text-align:right;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:top;display:block;max-height:20px"><div style="display:inline-flex;border-radius:2px 0px 0px 2px;font-size:0.875rem;text-align:center;margin:0px 0px 0px 20px;height:20px;line-height:18px;min-width:0px;outline:none;padding:0px;background:transparent;color:rgb(68,68,68);border:none"><img src="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif" alt="" style="background:url("https://ci6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/-o7NGl1u2vQt2toON6kibR2op6dqwt04iQGwMpHVJHanSo0Ix1iKXU9szxbctnGhp1XNqVYlwcq3BVOHG0-23DWyKTgjjhm7mvJAeAxrr_GRQcK3kKA9NTRbxLI0Uhk=s0-d-e1-ft#https://www.gstatic.com/images/icons/material/system/2x/reply_black_20dp.png") 50% 50%/20px no-repeat;height:20px;margin:0px;vertical-align:middle;width:20px;opacity:0.7;display:inline-block;padding:0px"></div><div id="m_-2816734363292664106gmail-:kz" style="display:inline-flex;border-radius:0px 2px 2px 0px;font-size:0.875rem;text-align:center;margin:0px 0px 0px 20px;height:20px;line-height:18px;min-width:0px;outline:none;padding:0px;background:transparent;color:rgb(68,68,68);border:none"><img src="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif" alt="" style="background:url("https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/b1KGD8VFPfiX2c0sJdvQAS0EelTKSNvTErm1oFYH8BDmtb5KSKrTYkR7t4AVHDAgCHp2ddFenv1zCzV3AoSEDOgapFn4eAW7B8wCtmN-wKzn23IcCc1EayhId4PlEJK4BDbA=s0-d-e1-ft#https://www.gstatic.com/images/icons/material/system/2x/more_vert_black_20dp.png") 50% 50%/20px no-repeat;height:20px;width:20px;margin:0px;vertical-align:middle;opacity:0.7;display:inline-block;padding:0px"></div></td></tr><tr style="height:auto;display:flex"><td colspan="3"><table cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse;table-layout:fixed;white-space:nowrap;width:865.143px"><tbody><tr><td style="overflow:visible;text-overflow:ellipsis;display:flex;line-height:20px"><div style="overflow:hidden;max-width:92%;display:inline-block"><span style="vertical-align:top;color:rgb(95,99,104);font-size:0.75rem;letter-spacing:0.3px;line-height:20px">to <b><span dir="ltr" name="Brent" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-weight:normal;vertical-align:top">Brent</span></b>, <span dir="ltr" name="ExI" style="vertical-align:top">ExI</span></span></div><div id="m_-2816734363292664106gmail-:ky" style="display:inline-flex;margin-left:4px;vertical-align:top;border:none;outline:none"><img src="https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/images/cleardot.gif" alt="" style="background:url("https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/g-uXrfrsPTqST78ajYBC0CO0m9XuejhZSbgafj9PV3NKjZtRS9pBKIalsnP_tTKbc2ee_Jq43s4aSWmWWFi2DYsrRKdL1gW2BuWBlp3kB_25S0_D6tf6CiRSYWOtgpp394i5kld2ldLf=s0-d-e1-ft#https://www.gstatic.com/images/icons/material/system/2x/arrow_drop_down_black_20dp.png") 50% 50%/20px no-repeat;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;height:20px;width:20px;border:none;margin:0px 0px 0px auto;display:flex;opacity:0.54"></div></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div id="m_-2816734363292664106gmail-:kk" style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:medium"><div></div><div></div><div></div></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:medium"><div style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></div><div id="m_-2816734363292664106gmail-:kx" style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"></div><div id="m_-2816734363292664106gmail-:km" style="font-size:0.875rem;direction:ltr;margin:8px 0px 0px;padding:0px"><div id="m_-2816734363292664106gmail-:kl" style="overflow:hidden;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:small;line-height:1.5"><div dir="ltr" style=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Consciousness isn’t about functionality or intelligence,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">I don't know where else you would use your intelligence unless it was in your conscious mind (unconscious too, of course).  Maybe you mean something different with the term 'functionality', but we cannot perform any functions of a voluntary nature without consciousness.  Of course I haven't read all the articles and books and don't know how twisted the definitions get there of functionality and whatever.  And everything is a physical quality and quantity to me as a materialist.</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><br></font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-size:12pt"><font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif">bill w</font></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 11:00 AM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Consciousness isn’t about
functionality or intelligence, it’s about physical qualities.  What is it like?  Is the physics I represent red with the same
as yours, or is it more like your greenness?  Intelligent computer systems are abstracted
away from physical qualities.  Any physical
property can represent a 1, but only if you have a dictionary interpretation
mechanism to get the one from that particular physical property.  We, on the other hand represent information directly
on physical qualities, like redness and greenness.  This is more efficient, since you don’t need
the abstraction layer to make it substrate independent.</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Stathis, from what I hear from you,
you are saying that redness is not a physical quality and that greenness is not
something physically different.  Is that
the really case?</span></p></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 7:38 AM John Clark via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 7:33 PM William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>What would you like to see done in intelligence research?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"></font><font size="4">I'm not complaining, thanks to the Free Market there is already plenty of intelligence research done in Silicon Valley and elsewhere because doing so has a tendency to make people ridiculously rich so it needs no encouragement by me. I'm just saying that those who like to develop intricate consciousness theories would do better if they tried to figure out better ways to make something intelligent instead because doing so just might make them a billionaire and if they're successful at producing intelligence they'll get consciousness automatically as a free bonus.</font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4"> John K Clark</font></div></div></div></div>
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