<div dir="ltr"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Hi John,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman, serif"><span style="font-size:12pt">Oh no. I was only </span><span style="font-size:16px">disagreeing</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> with your comments like:</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)">“We can not directly detect consciousness in anybody except
for ourselves”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I Completely agree with everything
else you are saying including what you are saying about volition, choice…,
You’ve even converted me to the camp that says the term AGI is bad. Long live the term AI!<i></i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)">“I don't see how such a neural ponytail could falsify
solipsism”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman, serif"><span style="font-size:12pt">Are you saying that the left
hemisphere of your brain does not know, absolutely, that it is </span></font><b style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt">NOT</b><font face="Times New Roman, serif"><span style="font-size:12pt"> the
only hemisphere in existence? </span></font><a href="https://www.cbc.ca/cbcdocspov/features/the-hogan-twins-share-a-brain-and-see-out-of-each-others-eyes?fbclid=IwAR24WaZJuZFucfU41DRX3zgmuWwYhiYL2MfINsctVKgah4PFLoCtL_Zx4Fga2LwRIxXHI9-jg5bX7WvaHeuiloko3WZ-jfzl3i1Cdbxv3HfHZCNhyg" style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt;color:blue">These
twins</a><font face="Times New Roman, serif"><span style="font-size:12pt"> know, </span><span style="font-size:16px">directly</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> and absolutely that their twin’s brain and consciousness exist, don’t
you think?</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)">“you wouldn't be Brent Allsop anymore, you'd be John Clark.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman, serif"><span style="font-size:12pt">When I’m talking about effing the ineffable,
I’m only talking about at the elemental redness level, not the composite qualia
level. When you experience the redness
of the strawberry there is a huge amount of other phenomenal ideas (including
memories like red is warm, and sweet, tastes great…) that are computationally
bound to make up that composite qualitative experience. For every single piece of such a </span><span style="font-size:16px">composite</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> qualitative experience, there must be something physical that is that elemental piece. </span></font><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt">Some people think of qualia as everything but
the elemental redness (they think red is a quality of the strawberry).</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt"> </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt">Given that, again, I pretty much agree with
you on how difficult it would be to eff an entire composite qualitative
experiences.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)">“I have yet to hear even a hint of a reason why humans can
be intelligent and conscious but computers can only be <s>conscious</s>[intelligent?]”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">It’s as simple as the abstract word
red isn’t red. You need a dictionary to
know what red means. While glutamate (or
at least something in our brain) is what you should find in that dictionary as that
definition.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(31,78,121)">I can't see how Darwinian Evolution managed to come up with
a conscious creature like me</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Darwinian evolution decided to run
your consciousness directly on physical qualities, because it is more efficient
and it didn’t need the extra hardware required to make you substrate
independent.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Brent</span></p></div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">John Clark</strong> <span dir="auto"><<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 3:21 PM<br>Subject: Re: [ExI] Fwd: Chalmers<br>To: Brent Allsop <<a href="mailto:brent.allsop@gmail.com">brent.allsop@gmail.com</a>><br></div><br><br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font size="4">Brent, I don't see how that changes what I said, everything that you do and everything a AI does and everything anything does either happens for a reason and thus is subject to cause and effect or it doesn't happen for a reason and thus is random. So you're doomed to failure if you try to imbue words like "volition" or "choice" with some sort of mystical power that only something that is wet and squishy like humans have but something that is dry <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">and </span>hard like a computer never could.</font><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><font size="4">And a Avatar style neural ponytail would certainly be an interesting gadget but I don't see how it could solve and of the philosophical problems you're talking about. I don't see how such a neural ponytail could falsify solipsism, if I used it to merge with a worm the human/worm hybrid might be conscious but it could be argued that it was the human part that was doing all the heavy lifting and making all of the magical conscious mojo juice. I might also use it with a bat as in the famous thought experiment and learn what it's like to be a bat/human hybrid, but I still wouldn't know what it's like to be a pure non-hybrid 100% bat living in the wild in a cave. And you and I might try it and then John Allsop would know what it's like to be Brent Clark, but Brent Allsop still wouldn't know what it's like to be John Clark, to do that you'd have to change your brain so it's identical to John Clark's but then you wouldn't be Brent Allsop anymore, you'd be John Clark.</font><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><font size="4">I have yet to hear even a hint of a reason why humans can be intelligent and conscious but computers can only be conscious; and if you can have one without the other I can't see how Darwinian Evolution managed to come up with a conscious creature like me because Evolution can only see intelligence, it can't directly detect consciousness any better than you or I can so natural selection can't produce it unless it's the byproduct of something that it can see. Something like intelligence.</font></div><div><font size="4"><br></font></div><div><font size="4"> John K Clark</font></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_quote"><br>
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