<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">I don’t understand why you are completely unwilling to take people’s feelings into account. Failing to do that is a major component of the resistance to science. Pure logic does not get the majority of people to change their opinion, personal emotional appeals do that.<div><br></div><div>The failure of yourself and people like you to understand the emotions at play are a HUGE part of anti-science sentiment. The other factor is ignorance.</div><div><br></div><div>You are doing nothing but boring us by repeating something we already know you believe. Why say it again? What good does it do? You, also, are being overly emotional.</div><div><br></div><div>Why should the Hawaiian protesters allow anything if they feel the person (people / system) doing it to them is not respecting them? I wouldn’t allow a doctor to study me or a teacher to tutor me if they disrespected me. <br><br><div dir="ltr">SR Ballard</div><div dir="ltr"><br>On Dec 23, 2019, at 6:38 AM, John Clark via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 9:30 PM Dan TheBookMan via extropy-chat <</span><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank" style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">> wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span style="font-size:large"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">>> </span>As I said, explaining that some native Hawaiians are behaving in a stupid barbaric and parochial way today now due to something that happened in 1893 may be true but it doesn't make the current behavior one bit less stupid barbaric and parochial.</span></blockquote><div><br></div><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>As I wrote, 1893 is just one of the early dates. And my point was that this was not literally centuries ago.</i></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">I don't care if it happened yesterday because explaining why somebody is <span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">stupid barbaric and parochial does not make them one bit less </span><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">stupid barbaric and parochial. </span></font></div></div><div><font size="4"> </font></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font size="4"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">>> </span>And I still don't understand why westerners learning less about the universe will make up for an injustice committed by them in 1893. I hope you don't think only westerners would have any interest in such things.</font></blockquote></div></div></div><div><br></div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>I’m not sure it would,</i></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><font size="4" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></font><font size="4">Well I'm very sure it would NOT! The Hawaiian protestor's motto seems to be "we will keep humanity from acquiring new knowledge until they respect us", and that motto will work just about as well as another motto, "The beatings will continue until morale improves".</font></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><i> <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>but my post was about trying to understand the history</i></div></blockquote><div><br></div><font size="4">Why what's the point? You could know all there is to know about their history and understand exactly why they behave as they do, but at the end of the day they're still stupid barbaric and parochial, the only difference is that now after all that study you know why they're stupid barbaric and parochial.</font><br><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>these invaders might go further and class you as a barbarians, part of an ignorant mob</i></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><font size="4">I make absolutely NO apology for calling a group of people who destroyed a magnificent monument to the better nature of the Human race like the Thirty Meter Telescope and shut down the world's premiere optical observatory for nearly 2 months for the first time in over half a century because astronomers feared for their lives a ignorant barbaric parochial mob. </font><br><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div> <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span><i>Would that argument sway you? I’m guessing it wouldn’t.</i></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default"><font size="4"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think any argument of mine would sway that </font>ignorant barbaric mob, at least not an argument based on logic. A cock and bull story about another invisible man who was more powerful and wanted more telescopes might work, but I'm not very good at concocting such tales. </font></div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>The main issues here for me are the colonization and the justice ones. That seems to be what you’re missing.</i></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"></font><font size="4">What I'm missing is understanding how preventing the Human race from better understanding its place in the universe can ameliorate a past injustice, nor can I understand why so many people who like to think of themselves as forward thinking and enlightened have a knee jerk reaction to defend the evil forces of the anti-enlightenment, provided of course that it's not part of their own culture. By the way, I don't use the word "evil" a lot but I think it's appropriate in this case.</font></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>You’re setting aside, again, as if science is a card that trumps all other concerns.</i></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"></font><font size="4">It sure as hell trumps the concern that an invisible man on a mountain will be annoyed by a telescope!<br><br>John K Clark</font></div>
</div></div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>extropy-chat mailing list</span><br><span><a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a></span><br><span><a href="http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat">http://lists.extropy.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/extropy-chat</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>