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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 10:43 AM John Clark via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 4:29 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org" target="_blank">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmaildefault><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>>>… </span></span><i>In other words, both (255, 0, 0) and "red" are not physically red. You need to point to something and say: "THAT is red" to provide a physical definition to those abstract terms. </i><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>>>…If you're interested in subjectivity, or in gaining understanding of the most basic fundamental nature of anything, not just consciousness, you've got to forget about definitions because ultimately that always leads to circularity, instead you've got to use examples. You point to a ripe tomato and say "That is (255, 0, 0), aka pure red". … John K Clark</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>John K Clark</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>…</b>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>William Flynn Wallace via extropy-chat<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [ExI] utah: RE: Frank Jackson's brilliant color scientist Mary<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>>…<span style='color:black'>I think it's only circular if there is only one example. bill w</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>The entire discussion has helped me accept what I have long suspected: I am a digital avatar. I “think” only in terms of numbers and equations. You perhaps have heard of that creepy movie where the boy saw dead people, everywhere, walking around. They didn’t even know they are dead. Well, I am his digital counterpart: I see simulated people walking around everywhere. They don’t even know they are software. I didn’t know I was one until the recent qualia discussion. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>Be that as it may, I am a really cool avatar. Self-aware I am! (Or should it be “it am?” (It are? (It be?))) Of course it be only digitally simulated self-awareness, but that’s better than none at all.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>spike<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>