<div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">John Said:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(84,130,53)"> “No theory of qualia is testable.“</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">All the supporters of
Representational Qualia Theory are predicting that this claim will be falsified
via a neural ponytail enabling is to directly experience the qualities of other’s
conscious knowledge. It seems it would help
if you would canonize this view so we can find out and track how many people
agree, and not talk as if our view is the only view.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(84,130,53)">“Empiricism is all about objectivity, but qualia is about
subjectivity.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman, serif"><span style="font-size:12pt">Precisely. Once we discover which of our abstract objective
descriptions are describing what we directly experience as redness ang greenness,
this will connect the abstract objective to the qualitative subjective, making
it all objectively sharable and very objectively predictable as to who’s subjective redness is like
who’s subjective greenness. (i.e. all the relevant names, memories and </span></font>association<font face="Times New Roman, serif"><span style="font-size:12pt"> with elemental redness in one brain will be bound to greenness</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> in the others.)</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Stuart LaForge pointed out some great
new ways to empirically test for Molecular Materialism.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Will responded to some of the other
stuff Stuart was saying with:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(84,130,53)">determining what wavelengths can be seen is not the same as
determining what qualia are experienced. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I agree with Will here. I think it is incorrect to assume that glutamate
or redness is always affiliated with red light. It is more likely that whatever is most
important to that particular species will be represented with glutamate/redness. We need to be able to pick the strawberries
from the green leaves. Since the
strawberries are most important to us, and since the ripe ones are the ones
that reflect red light, that is why our brain chooses to highlight the
important ripe ones with glutamate redness.
For example, I believe bees can see wavelengths we can’t, which are the wavelengths
most likely to be reflected by flowers containing the most nectar. It is likely that evolution used glutamate
redness to represent these different raveling’s of light to highlight what is
important to the bees.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman, serif"><span style="font-size:12pt">Bat’s use echolocation instead of
light. Their echolocation can detect
objects in the air. I’d predict that a
bat’s brain uses the same redness/glutamate to highlight whatever </span><span style="font-size:16px">echolocated</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> data was is important to the bat.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br></p></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 8:41 AM Will Steinberg via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Well, determining what wavelengths can be seen is not the same as determining what qualia are experienced. </div>
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