<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:#000000">william flynn wallace (me) is bill w, not bill k</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 6:22 PM Brent Allsop via extropy-chat <<a href="mailto:extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org">extropy-chat@lists.extropy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Hi Will,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">You asked: “</span><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"><b>Present...where?</b>”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">Thank you for asking!</span></b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> We’re creating a video to help explain all
this and we just completed a crude rendering of the section that answers just
this question </span><a href="https://canonizer.com/videos/consciousness/" style="color:blue" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">here</span></a><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">There is no narration yet, so I’ll try to walk
you through it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">This will pause in the “Flashing Pixel” section
in a loop with a single flashing red/green pixel.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">This flashing pixel basically proves
there must be something physical in our brain, which can physically change for
each pixel of conscious knowledge we are aware of. (The “inverted perception” section proves
redness is not related to red, and in fact may be simply inverted anywhere
along the chain of perception.).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">You’ll need to press the continue
button to get out of the loop.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The simplest theory is that each of
the cortical columns in the visual cortex is representing a pixel of knowledge
in our visual space, and so far, all evidence seems to support this
theory. Steven Lehar recommends thinking
of it as an actual diorama of 3D knowledge laid out in the visual cortex
composed of voxels (3D pixels) spread out in the visual cortex.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">In the “scrunched cortex” section,
we split things into 2 spaces. The one on the left represents the virtual reality represented, or how things seem to
us. The one on the right
(hypothetically) represents the actual layout of the neurons representing each
of these pixels of knowledge, physically laid out in the visual cortex. There is much higher resolution in the center
field of vision, so this requires things to be scrunched up in some way to make
room for additional pixel neurons in the center of our field of vision. Of course, this scrunching is consistent with
the folds in the cortex. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/16f0my54ba7m7SliUDkGdvcxdfOJmfZiI/view?usp=sharing" style="color:blue" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(17,85,204);border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0in;text-decoration-line:none"><span id="gmail-m_-556282372791674649gmail-_x0000_t75">
</span><span id="gmail-m_-556282372791674649gmail-Picture_x0020_39" type="#_x0000_t75" href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/16f0my54ba7m7SliUDkGdvcxdfOJmfZiI/view?usp=sharing" style="width:185pt;height:104.5pt">
</span></span></a><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
<div><img src="cid:ii_k4row1xw0" alt="image.png" width="247" height="139"><br></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">As you can see in the above model
of the primary visual cortex, there is of course the </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt">”Longitudinal fissure” separating
the two halves of the diorama which are physically split between the two hemispheres
of the brain.</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt"> </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt">There is also the “Transverse
occipital sulcus” splitting the visual cortex in half again from top to bottom (looks like a
frown), splitting the diorama into 4 sections.</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt">
</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-size:12pt">This cross of valleys centered on our field of vision makes room for the
additional pixels at the center of vision.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">You can see the seeds of the
strawberry, as they move around these cortical column pixels, into and out of
these sulci as they increase and decrease in resolution.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Does that answer your question? ;)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;line-height:normal;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 3:50 PM Will Steinberg <<a href="mailto:steinberg.will@gmail.com" target="_blank">steinberg.will@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Dec 29, 2019 at 4:31 PM Brent Allsop <<a href="mailto:brent.allsop@gmail.com" target="_blank">brent.allsop@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Hi Will,</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 10:41 PM Will Steinberg <<a href="mailto:steinberg.will@gmail.com" target="_blank">steinberg.will@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Well,</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">1) I'm Will not Bill ;)</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sorry, I guess I confused you with William Flynn Wallace<span style="color:rgb(32,33,36);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:700;letter-spacing:0.2px;white-space:nowrap"> </span>aka (Bill K). Thanks for clearing this up.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You did confuse me with BillK, but he is not, to my knowledge, William Flynn Wallace! We have many competing Wills here and further competing wills beyond we eponymous ones.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div></div><div>Once someone experiences redness, when there is no glutamate present, glutamate = redness theory falsified. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Present...where? There is definitely glutamate present in the brain at all times and during all qualia. To do what you are doing, you seem to need to find the *location* of the qualia, which runs into precisely the same issue. How will you possibly determine what the bounds of 'present' are? </div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">3) The universe clearly cannot exist without consciousness. There is no universe. All we know was gathered by consciousness. Observation directly affects reality. A theory of the universe obviously includes consciousness because it is far too big a deal to be extraneous. Why do people try to find the underlying geometry of the fundamental forces, but claim consciousness is one of John's "brute facts"? Gravity may be a brute fact, but also one that is able to be studied.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Then, does a person not exist when they are asleep and unconscious? Are you saying that even if a huge asteroid completely destroyed all life on this earth this solar system could no longer exist (possibly to try again) since it was no longer conscious?</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>No. In my opinion, our consciousness is merely an extension of some original flagellum from the beginning of the universe, when everything was integrated a la Tononi's IIT. Also, in any case, I think the solar system is a sufficiently integrated system to contain consciousness (c.f. orbital harmonics) and furthermore I think atoms are sufficiently integrated systems to contain consciousness. I do not think that atoms are self-conscious because they don't appear to contain sufficient machinery to map themselves, unlike the human brain, though I could be wrong and atoms could be little brains, but I don't think so.</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
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