<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>hmmm, so he sent a reply to me as well as to the list. I replied to the personal mail, I'll just copy what I wrote in here. Slightly less polite than if I'd been writing to the list, but there you go.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote">
<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="gmail-im"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 at 01:16, John Clark <<a href="mailto:johnkclark@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnkclark@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 8:43 PM <a href="mailto:ddraig@pobox.com" target="_blank">ddraig@pobox.com</a> <<a href="mailto:ddraig@gmail.com" target="_blank">ddraig@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><br></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>Are you stupid? </i></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><font size="4">I
don't know, it could be. Stupid people generally don't know they're
stupid, but if I am stupid I'm certainly not as stupid as the mob that
ILLEGALLY blocked the only road up that mountain to prevent the most
wonderful telescope in the world from being built. I'm not as stupid as
those who feel it is their duty to stick up for that mindless mob
either.</font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>None
of us are sticking up for the mob, we're saying that ignoring the
wishes of the people present is foolish. None of us would be on the
Extropians list if we did not support the building of the telescope.
the problem is that you seem completely unable to grasp the fact that
there is more to building the telescope than logic, and are wilfully
ignoring what people in the thread are saying.<br></div><span class="gmail-im"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><font size="4"><br></font><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span> am I wasting my time with this guy?</i></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">Yes. So will you go away now?</font></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>Stop writing to me, dickhead, and I will.<br></div><span class="gmail-im"><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>What you ARE willing to do is to cut out the next line (there were, what, 3 of them in total?) where I said I agree with you.</i></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font size="4">That
line was about property rights and implied that landowners have the
right to do whatever they want with their land including not allowing
telescopes to be built there. </font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>Which
they do. Although it turns out that the mob does not own the land,
which makes it even more stupid. Unfortunately, the mob has sway
locally, and here we are.</div><span class="gmail-im"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><font size="4">I cut off that line because I did not wish to debate it, and I did not wish to debate it because it is IRRELEVANT. </font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>Really? So the telescope is going to be built?</div><span class="gmail-im"><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><font size="4">Every
court decision has ruled that the mob does NOT own that land. Of course
in the end the law and court decisions proved to be irrelevant too.</font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>Because law arises from politics, and not vice-versa.</div><span class="gmail-im"><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><font size="4">And
in no shape way or form do you agree with me. Every defender of that
evil ignorant anti-science anti-enlightenment mob has the same basic
mantra, "it would be nice if the telescope could be built <b>BUT</b> ..." <br></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>NONE
OF US ARE AGREEING WITH THE MOB - we are attempting to *understand* the
mob, something you seem incapable of doing. Much as you seem incapable
of understanding anyone writing to you in the thread. I've repeatedly
stated that I don't agree with the mob and the telescope should have
been built. I understand why people on the list call you a troll. you
are a troll.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>So you understand that it's a politcal problem, not a science problem (or a legal problem, it seems).</i></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="gmail-im"><div><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">I understand it's a criminal problem, and I understand that the criminals have won.</font></div> <br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><font size="4"> <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">>> </span>If
they had not that telescope would be generating new knowledge about the
universe for the entire human race right now, but that didn't happen
because the mob successfully transmitted their ignorance worshiping
meme.</font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><i><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span>Welcome to politics.</i></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="4">That's not politics that's just crime. </font></font></div></span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>It's all much the same.<br></div><span class="gmail-im"><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="4">And I do NOT welcome the </font></font><font size="4">ignorance
worshiping meme that infected the mob even if I grudgingly admire its
skill at rapid reproduction. I don't welcome people who feel it is their
duty to defend those infected with that meme eother. </font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>We're not defending it. You are stupid.</div><span class="gmail-im"><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><font size="4"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">>></span>The P word implies the rule of law </font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">></span><i>No, it does not at all. The American Revolution was illegal. </i></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><font size="4">Illegal under one set of laws and legal or even mandatory under other sets. </font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>Which
sets? Now you are going to spout some freedom rubbish when it was
really about a small group of middle-class people not wanting to pay
taxes.</div><span class="gmail-im"><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><font size="4">The
very first thing the American Revolutionaries did was set up their own
laws and build gallows so they could hang people who violated those
rules, it's the same with every revolution. But the only law the mob on
that mountain follows is "if I say I own something then I own it and it
doesn't matter what you or the courts or anybody else says about it".</font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span><div>Power comes from the barrel of a gun. Unfortunately the mob had the numbers and so the telescope was cancelled.</div><div><br></div><div>Again
- I'm fairly sure everyone on the list feels this was a bad idea, but
unlike you, we are making an attempt to get our head around why it
happened, instead of just going "oh no Luddites bad, I refuse to think
beyond that" - what is needed is people with more of a clue about
politics than you to counter-organise.<br></div><span class="gmail-im"><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><font face="Roboto, arial, sans-serif" color="#6a6a6a"><span style="font-size:14px"></span></font><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">> </span><i>I generally lurk on this list and don't read it that often</i></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font size="4">I think such a long tradition should be honored and continue.</font></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
</blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></span></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div><div>Perhaps I should just work on killfiling the obviously stupid people on the list</div><div class="gmail-yj6qo gmail-ajU"><div id="gmail-:2jh" class="gmail-ajR" tabindex="0"><img class="gmail-ajT" src="https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif"></div></div><div class="gmail-adL"><div class="gmail-im"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Dwayne<br clear="all"></div></div></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:ddraig@pobox.com" target="_blank">ddraig@pobox.com</a> <a href="http://irc.bluesphereweb.com" target="_blank">irc.bluesphereweb.com</a> #dna<br> ...r.e.t.u.r.n....t.o....t.h.e....s.o.u.r.c.e...<br> <a href="http://fav.me/dqkgpd" target="_blank">http://fav.me/dqkgpd</a><a href="http://tinyurl.com/he-is-right-you-know-jpg" target="_blank"></a><br>our aim is wakefulness, our enemy is dreamless sleep</div></div></div></div></div></div></div>